Homebrew How can HANS lead to piracy?

[Pacheko17]

I've been seeing a lot of people saying that HANS could indeed lead to piracy, but I just really don't see how. Can anyone explain this?


And before anyone says anything, I'm against piracy, and I only have original games.

 

[Deleted User]

I'm guessing that we can't just run any old 3ds rom because it relies on the system's secure files to be able to play it. (files like ticket.db and encryption algorythms)

 

[Demifiend]

I've been seeing a lot of people saying that HANS could indeed lead to piracy, but I just really don't see how. Can anyone explain this?


And before anyone says anything, I'm against piracy, and I only have original games.

HANS is definitely the most advanced thing we do have, for users who have their methods available, running HANS allows you to have hacks, mods, and better compatibility with some homebrews, but the thing is, even though HANS is the hot shit, it still has some locks and problems with the Internal 3DS kernel, which is mandatory in order to run any sort of Backup Loader, CFW, hell, most of smea hacks resorts in exploiting the system in almost everything but deep Kernel Exploits, as that would allows the possibility of the described method.

Also, if you have original games or not, that's not what it matters, i could go on explaining how saying that you're against or favor to piracy isn't really that important, specially on a forum where the biggest attraction are things like hacks and backup loaders. but this is just another topic, anyway, so in conclusion, yes, theoretically, it is possible to find a way to exploit HANS in order to run that sort of things, but HANS isn't enough, the program itself would have to be supported by another program (Let's say, HANS needs "XXC" program, something that has deeper access to the 3DS commands) so with that, you could fuse "XXC" + "HANS" and that would give you = HanXXC.

But again, this is easier said than done, coding a program like that would take quite an amount of time, I think is easier creating a CFW than a support program for HANS in order to do those things, but i'm not quite sure, so in a nutshell, yes, HANS could lead to piracy if it had some sort of support program, which that isn't the case for the moment, maybe in a soon or late future, who knows, but i predict that another CFW would do the job much better and easier than anything HANS could do for that matter.

 

[Clydefrosch]

whatever that guy just said mostly doesn't make sense.
people assume that hans, with the options it has given us so far, must, on some way or another go beyond the userland access that current hax have given us, which, if it actually was the case, meant that there is an exploit going beyond userland which is where all the cia and piracy stuff happens. with smea as the most responsible of all of us, being the one that has all control over it. since he does not want piracy, he uses that exploit to give us only what hans can do so far, keeping the rest away from us (among other things by keeping the source code to hans private for now, which, if released, might show that exploit to the world and quickly lead to unrestricted access to anything hans supposedly could be capable off)

however, all of that is only assumption, based almost entirely on the amazement of hans and its source being private.

 

[Astoria]

HANS by itself doesn't allow anything that could lead to piracy.

However, by reverse-engineering it, we could get access to CIA installation, and that is currently being worked on, supposedly a PoC should appear in the next days / weeks.

 

[Deleted member 370671]

I've been seeing a lot of people saying that HANS could indeed lead to piracy, but I just really don't see how. Can anyone explain this?


And before anyone says anything, I'm against piracy, and I only have original games.

That's precisely the thing ; we don't know.
HANS can do many things that Regionthree/four couldn't. That shouldn't be really "impressive", if there wasn't one peculiar thing ; Smea didn't release the source code, like he did with R3/R4.
HANS can already bypass all the HOME menu checks ; some people also claim that it bypasses the new AP. Who knows what its full potential is?
So, everyone is awaiting for someone to RE it, and hope that this "someone" finds something interesting
So, this is entirely (almost) baseless speculation, but isn't that what we tempers do best?

 

[Pacheko17]

Welp. Thanks for clearing that out for me, guys.

I decided I'll stick to the side that thinks it isn't capable of piracy, but you never know and I honestly don't care.

 

[Eskuero]

"There's *almost always* more than your eye can see."
Optimus Prime

However smea have been really carefully with the source code, that leaves the door open to any conspiracy theory. Maybe is smea illuminaty?

 

[The Real Jdbye]

I've been seeing a lot of people saying that HANS could indeed lead to piracy, but I just really don't see how. Can anyone explain this?


And before anyone says anything, I'm against piracy, and I only have original games.

For me it seems down to one simple fact: You can use both custom code and romfs with it. Theoretically this would allow us to use any code and romfs we want, even ones from completely different games (similar to how Loadiine works on Wii U), but for some reason that doesn't work, though I suspect that is something that could be worked around if we figured out what prevents it from working.

 

[stanleyopar2000]

Sky3DS.

 

[spoonm]

Seriousness:
I don't think it makes use of a kernel exploit, but I wouldn't know. If it did, changing the CPU clock on N3DS would be compatible with just about every title. I read somewhere on these forums that an NTR plugin changes the clock speed for *every* game without any problem, and lets you use the C stick normally, unlike HANS.

Not so much:

Maybe is smea illuminaty?

smealuminati confirmed.

 

[Deleted member 370671]

Seriousness:
I don't think it makes use of a kernel exploit, but I wouldn't know. If it did, changing the CPU clock on N3DS would be compatible with just about every title. I read somewhere on these forums that an NTR plugin changes the clock speed for *every* game without any problem, and lets you use the C stick normally, unlike HANS.

Isn't every title compatible with the 804MHz CPU clock feature? I thought all the bugs had been fixed...

 

[neobrain]

However, by reverse-engineering it, we could get access to CIA installation

That's just entirely wrong. Anyone claiming that HANS is useful for CIA installation is either lying or doesn't actually know what they're talking about.

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Seriousness:
I don't think it makes use of a kernel exploit, but I wouldn't know.

Yeah, it doesn't.

 

[spoonm]

Isn't every title compatible with the 804MHz CPU clock feature? I thought all the bugs had been fixed...

I've been out of the loop for about a week. Read that maybe two or three days ago, preceding an update to the homebrew started pack(probably just the eShop launcher) letting you connect to the eShop again, after the maintenance.

Yeah, it doesn't.

Good to know.

 

[neobrain]

For me it seems down to one simple fact: You can use both custom code and romfs with it. Theoretically this would allow us to use any code and romfs we want, even ones from completely different games (similar to how Loadiine works on Wii U), but for some reason that doesn't work, though I suspect that is something that could be worked around if we figured out what prevents it from working.

You can't use any code or romfs. You have to adhere to whatever limits are set by each target application, and hence cannot load infinite amounts of data, nor can you execute code violating the particular application's access restrictions.

 

[Astoria]

That's just entirely wrong. Anyone claiming that HANS is useful for CIA installation is either lying or doesn't actually know what they're talking about.

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Yeah, it doesn't.

Just wait, the topic is actually being discussed publicly here, but with a very clever thread title to not get too much attention. I'm not working on that, but so far, several members have agreed that it's theoretically possible and the team that's working on it just need to write the code now. They promised a PoC for the next days, let's see what happens. As far as I know, it could be all a very big troll, but, what can one do.

 

[dannyboy941]

Is something do with ExHeader of the game if Hans shows invaild icache if you use from exemplar like Ninjacubic Code and romfs on Pokemon Y? Why has Hans no costum ExHeader any senses? Because i try make a fail .3ds file with super mario 3d land romfs and exefs and a wrong ExHeader is does same like on Hans if he get that error on Citra 3ds Emulator says Title ID Mistach before booting that game. Sorry for the offtopic or spamming what ever that called

 

[Deleted member 370671]

Just wait, the topic is actually being discussed publicly here, but with a very clever thread title to not get too much attention. I'm not working on that, but so far, several members have agreed that it's theoretically possible and the team that's working on it just need to write the code now. They promised a PoC for the next days, let's see what happens.

You're talking to neobrain, who is a *really* experienced dev from the Dolphin / Citra team... So I think he knows (a lot) more than us, and probably 99.9% of GBAtemp members

 

[FR0ZN]

Well HANS support CodeFS and RomFS replacement right?
So what if I (let's say) put in Cubic Ninja and let it use CodeFS and RomFS from Pokemon X?
Technically this still counts as a mod

 

[Msama]

Well HANS support CodeFS and RomFS replacement right?
So what if I (let's say) put in Cubic Ninja and let it use CodeFS and RomFS from Pokemon X?
Technically this still counts as a mod

It doesn't work.