Homebrew Bounty 2018 Month 2: Switch Applications

Dan-the-Rebirth · Dec 28, 2018

Well I assume no one from the jury will clarify on that issue before the voting begins So just relax everyone and be satisfied with the fact that you made your wn opinion on the issue clear. And in case of other also contributed to the scene

blawar · Dec 28, 2018

cpasjuste said:
I think you do brake some licences thought.

I am not breaking any licenses. What makes you think I am?

blawar · Dec 28, 2018

Scarlet said:
Although the competition hasn't officially started yet as we're only beginning Phase 1 (read below for more details), you can already begin working on your new project / project update to submit to the Homebrew Bounty. However you must publish it during the appropriate window in order to be eligible to win a prize.

This was in Costello's original post, before any edits. Which part of this was changed?

It says right there, "to enter, you submit the app to the downloads section.". It does not list any other requirements there.

Then it says:

Although the competition hasn't officially started yet as we're only beginning Phase 1 (read below for more details), you can already begin working on your new project / project update to submit to the Homebrew Bounty. However you must publish it during the appropriate window in order to be eligible to win a prize.

So it says here you can begin working, and further more doesnt clarify what the appropriate window is. I assumed the appropriate window was after the competition was announced. Then you split the information between the top paragraph, and a list of sponsors / what are basically ads.

And then you say this:

Reminder: you don't have to wait until competitions officially begin to start working on your project.

why did you guys even announce it if you didn't have the requirements and dates clearly defined in some concise location, instead of spreading them across the top and bottom of one post, and another post weeks later?

Had you made it clear, I would have just fucked the community and not released anything for a few months like some of the other developers did.

when you say this:

In order to enter, you will be required to upload your project to the GBAtemp Download Center to allow other users to download your files easily. However feel free to also host your project on other platforms such as Github and similar.

I take that at face value that those are the requirements to enter. I'm not expecting you to play where's waldo with the various eligibility rules spread across multiple posts.

Scarlet · Dec 28, 2018

blawar said:
It says right there, "to enter, you submit the app to the downloads section.". It does not list any other requirements there.

Then it says:

So it says here you can begin working, and further more doesnt clarify what the appropriate window is. I assumed the appropriate window was after the competition was announced. Then you split the information between the top paragraph, and a list of sponsors / what are basically ads.

And then you say this:

why did you guys even announce it if you didn't have the requirements and dates clearly defined in some concise location, instead of spreading them across the top and bottom of one post, and another post weeks later?

Had you made it clear, I would have just fucked the community and not released anything for a few months like some of the other developers did.

when you say this:

I take that at face value that those are the requirements to enter. I'm not expecting you to play where's waldo with the various eligibility rules spread across multiple posts.

So to summarise:
You didn't read the full post, made an assumption when you could have asked the staff, and now blame us for it? The post I quoted was from September, and is to my knowledge the original post. If you didn't read all of it, that's entirely on you. Take it on the head and learn a lesson for next time.

blawar · Dec 28, 2018

Scarlet said:
So to summarise:
You didn't read the full post, made an assumption when you could have asked the staff, and now blame us for it? The post I quoted was from September, and is to my knowledge the original post. If you didn't read all of it, that's entirely on you. Take it on the head and learn a lesson for next time.

No, to summarize I did read the full post. The full original post was both confusing, and ambiguous. In contract law, when a contract is ambiguous, it is usually interpreted to favor the party that did not write the contract, which would be the contestants.

it takes skill to confuse someone who makes a living doing logic puzzles.

edit: you quoted one line out of context, I quoted more of the post and showed you exactly why it was confusing and ambiguous. The rules should have been in a single spot, rather than scattered everywhere.

Scarlet · Dec 28, 2018

Costello's Original Post said:
GBATEMP PRESENTS...
THE 2018 SWITCH HOMEBREW BOUNTY

It is with great pleasure that I announce the official beginning of GBAtemp's first Switch Homebrew Bounty! If you aren't familiar with the concept, the Homebrew Bounty is a competition that rewards the best homebrew for a given platform. The idea is twofold: we want to reward authors for their hard work, but also encourage the creation of new projects and developments, which in turns benefits everyone!

Our previous bounties date from several years back, take a look at our first ever homebrew bounty back in 2008, and our second one from 2011 if you want to know what it looks like. This time, we're aiming even higher. Here's all you need to know about this year's bounty.

Four categories, four competitions

We will actually be running four different competitions over the next few months, one for each category of homebrew. The idea is to reward everyone, not just game developers but also those who work behind the scene to create the tools everyone needs.

CATEGORY 1: tools and utilities
This category is meant to reward authors of tools/utilities, as in, programs that run on a computer (not on the Switch itself) and serve a specific purpose such as patching tools, content extractors, development libraries, and much more. If you aren't sure whether your project fits in this category, look at the other categories below, and if in doubt, simply ask a moderator.

CATEGORY 2: Switch applications
Projects in this category are applications that run on the Switch itself. A few examples: video or media players, browsers, custom firmwares, homebrew loaders, etc... This category is not to be confused with category 1 which is for computer-based tools.

CATEGORY 3: emulators
The third category will reward emulators. This means emulators that run on the Switch, or who knows, perhaps the other way around too: Switch emulators that run on computers. If your project is an emulator and it's related to the Switch then it belongs in this category anyway.

CATEGORY 4: games
The last category: homebrew games. We accept new games as well as ports of existing games, of course.

Regardless of the category, if you wish to enter, you will be required to present either a new project, or a significant update to an existing project. As it is difficult to define the exact meaning of 'significant update', simply keep in mind that judges will look at your project individually and decide whether your update is significant enough to warrant their vote.

A few other noteworthy points:

In order to enter, you will be required to upload your project to the GBAtemp Download Center to allow other users to download your files easily. However feel free to also host your project on other platforms such as Github and similar.

Our Patrons (members who support us on Patreon) will have a voting right, the combined patron votes will have a 50% weight on the outcome, the other 50% will come from internal staff votes.

Although the competition hasn't officially started yet as we're only beginning Phase 1 (read below for more details), you can already begin working on your new project / project update to submit to the Homebrew Bounty. However you must publish it during the appropriate window in order to be eligible to win a prize.

Winning projects will receive cash prizes as well as medals (image files) that they can include in their project if they like.

Phase 1: sponsors and donations

Thanks to our sponsors, we are going to be able to distribute as much as $8000, yes you read right, eight thousand US dollars!
The initial dispatch will be $2000 per category, divided into different sums for the top 5 highest voted projects. The detailed breakdown of prizes will be given in each respective announcement.

Half of this sum is generously donated by yours truly, GBAtemp!
Thanks to ad revenue and to our Patreon backers, GBAtemp is the biggest donator.

The other half comes from our generous sponsors as listed below.

MOD3DSCARD.COM
Buy flashcard to mod 3DS and Switch | Team Xecuter SX | Sky3ds+ | Stargate 3DS | R4 3DS - mod3dscard

AXIOGAME.COM
Axiogame | Backup Units, Modchips and more

And let's not forget Team Xecuter who made a very generous donation too.

But the bounty isn't only about sponsor companies: you, beloved members of our community (and even guests) can contribute too! If you want to make a donation, simply click the button below to send a payment to our Paypal. Needless to say, 100% of the amount we receive will be transfered to the authors of winning projects.

Upon submitting your donation, you can indicate whether you want the donation to go to a particular category, or all of them.
Also please note that our Paypal account name is "FILETRIP" - this is normal.

About a week from now, we will announce the final prize money we'll be able to distribute, although people will still be able to continue donating.
Then, the first competition (category: tools and utilities) will officially begin. You will have one month to work on your tool/utility project and submit it.
After which, we will take a moment for the voting process, and announce the winners shortly after.

Then the second competition will begin. And so on.
Reminder: you don't have to wait until competitions officially begin to start working on your project.

Thanks everyone for making GBAtemp such a fantastic community.
Let's get this started!

Look mango, that quote there is the entire original post. Everything is said in that, and like I said, if there was something you didn't understand, the thing to do is ask. Not assume and kick up a fuss later. You can quote contract law all you want but this isn't a contract. And even then, it's clear enough that 99% of other members submitting got it right.

blawar · Dec 28, 2018

Scarlet said:
Look mango, that quote there is the entire original post. Everything is said in that, and like I said, if there was something you didn't understand, the thing to do is ask. Not assume and kick up a fuss later. You can quote contract law all you want but this isn't a contract. And even then, it's clear enough that 99% of other members submitting got it right.

Actually contract law most definitely applies to contests and sweeps. The laws for this stuff are actually very complex, there are rules in every state for exactly this sort of problem: the rules need to be crystal clear which they weren't here. GBATemp definitely is not complying with some US state and federal rules regarding sweeps and contests. This is why some competitions / contests aren't valid in some states. However, if GBATemp did comply with all of it, they'd probably need to hire a lawyer(s) which might be too cost prohibitive. This is why you almost never see global competitions. it is really hard to comply with every world wide jurisdiction rules.

cpasjuste · Dec 28, 2018

blawar said:
Actually contract law most definitely applies to contests and sweeps. The laws for this stuff are actually very complex, there are rules in every state for exactly this sort of problem: the rules need to be crystal clear which they weren't here. GBATemp definitely is not complying with some US state and federal rules regarding sweeps and contests. This is why some competitions / contests aren't valid in some states. However, if GBATemp did comply with all of it, they'd probably need to hire a lawyer(s) which might be too cost prohibitive. This is why you almost never see global competitions. it is really hard to comply with every world wide jurisdiction rules.

I'm not sure you can complain about rules, as you clearly break some licences with your closed source entry. I don't have the time to (nor a computer) to show you, but I will soon, as this is something I really dislike.

blawar · Dec 28, 2018

Scarlet said:
Look mango, that quote there is the entire original post. Everything is said in that, and like I said, if there was something you didn't understand, the thing to do is ask. Not assume and kick up a fuss later. You can quote contract law all you want but this isn't a contract. And even then, it's clear enough that 99% of other members submitting got it right.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ute&URL=0800-0899/0849/Sections/0849.094.html
```“Game promotion” means, but is not limited to, a contest, game of chance, sweepstakes, or gift enterprise, conducted by an operator within or throughout the state and other states in connection with and incidental to the sale of consumer products or services, and in which the elements of chance and prize are present. However, “game promotion” may not be construed to apply to bingo games conducted pursuant to s. 849.0931.''
``(b) Arbitrarily to remove, disqualify, disallow, or reject any entry;''
``(d) To print, publish, or circulate literature or advertising material used in connection with such game promotions which is false, deceptive, or misleading; or''
``(3) The operator of a game promotion in which the total announced value of the prizes offered is greater than $5,000 shall file with the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services a copy of the rules and regulations of the game promotion and a list of all prizes and prize categories offered at least 7 days before the commencement of the game promotion.''
``Such rules and regulations may not thereafter be changed, modified, or altered. The operator of a game promotion shall conspicuously post the rules and regulations of such game promotion''
``(11) A violation of this section, or soliciting another to commit an act that violates this section, constitutes a deceptive and unfair trade practice actionable under the Florida Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act.''

here are some of the rules which GBATemp broke in my jurisdiction.

Ev1l0rd · Dec 28, 2018

blawar said:
It was inevitable. I figured the 1.0 release was the time to do it if i was going to do it at all.

Also, I would argue that my entire app should be considered, not just the Nov / Dec changes.

GBATemp did a bad launch of the contest, all they said was to upload your app to the downloads section to enter, which I did: https://gbatemp.net/download/dz-network-installer.35214/ . Then after I entered, GBATemp changed the rules so that the app had to be published during Decemeber. I should be grandfathered in since I complied with the rules at the time you guys posted them.

Additionally, all of the "releases" prior to this were just previews / betas. I just released 1.0 a few days ago which is a real release. I understand this is a slippery slope, however I have been one of the developers that does not hoard updates or changes typically. I generally publish them as soon as they are done, unlike most developers who work on their stuff offline and then only publish stuff when they are ready to release. @XorTroll is famous for this, and that isnt meant to be a dig at him. It is well within his right to not publish code as soon as he writes it. I would just note that the rules as written encourages that sort of gamemanship. I would also like to point out that XorTroll did not begin to seriously work on Goldleaf until Decemember, the entry month. I am not saying he did this on purpose, but again the rules encourage this sort of gamemanship. I won't mention any other names, but if you look at some of the other entries, it was obvious they too withheld release until December just to game the eligibility requirements.

There is also the fact that many of these apps are non-trivial, and cannot be written in a month. Therefore again, the rules encourage gamesmanship to withhold releases until the actual month. I stand by my original recommendation, that GBATemp just follows the eligibility rules it originally made, and just allow all entries made after the contest was announced.

>Not meant to be a dig at XorTroll
>Spends the rest of the paragraph throwing shade at XorTroll.

This doesn't count up.

I agree with the general sentiment (although in my belief, any homebrew made during 2018 should count since it's the 2018 contest, not the December 2018s contest), but given you and XorTrolls history, I'd have picked any other developer to throw shade on.

blawar · Dec 28, 2018

cpasjuste said:
I'm not sure you can complain about rules, as you clearly break some licences with your closed source entry. I don't have the time to (nor a computer) to show you, but I will soon, as this is something I really dislike.

I wish you luck. There is no rule that says an entry must be open source. And I am not sure how I "clearly" broke any licenses? I understand that you may not personally like closed source projects, however I do not owe you, or anyone else any source code. If you are going to go down the well beaten path that the app uses original tinfoil code, the original author adubbz, has publicly stated that my app does not use any of his code (Adubbz had access to my source code). Additionally, none of the projects you are likely to accuse me of breaking licenses for are GPL, they are all MIT or ISC.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Ev1l0rd said:
>Not meant to be a dig at XorTroll
>Spends the rest of the paragraph throwing shade at XorTroll.

This doesn't count up.

I agree with the general sentiment (although in my belief, any homebrew made during 2018 should count since it's the 2018 contest, not the December 2018s contest), but given you and XorTrolls history, I'd have picked any other developer to throw shade on.

I am not throwing shade at XorTroll, he did nothing wrong. He is not obligated to write code for anyone, at any time. I am just saying that if he did withhold releases for the competition (which is well within his right, and actually encouraged by GBATemp), that is a shitty thing for the community. The old saying "Dont hate the playa, hate the game" applies here. I am throwing shade at GBATemp not XorTroll.

edit: you are right that there might be the perception that I am throwing shadow on XorTroll, as far as I know XorTroll and I are fine. We playfully troll each other on discord. I even submitted a critical bugfix to his repo: https://github.com/XorTroll/Goldleaf/commits?author=blawar

Cyan · Dec 28, 2018

Why don't you just remove your entry if the rules don't suit you or are not clear enough for you?
This is in no mean a law or legal forum, we do things for fun, for everybody to enjoy and make developing homebrew a fun activity. if you think it's a job and you are linked to any contract, this is not the place and you are mistaking the purpose and trying too hard to fit in.

Ev1l0rd · Dec 28, 2018

Scarlet said:
That being said, my knowledge on the subject is fairly limited lol. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me

It would still demand that DZ shows the MIT license as it appeared on the Tinfoil repo. That or a link to it, but the license has to appear in the application in some form.

blawar · Dec 28, 2018

Ev1l0rd said:
It would still demand that DZ shows the MIT license as it appeared on the Tinfoil repo. That or a link to it, but the license has to appear in the application in some form.

Adubbz stated that I am not using any of his code, there is no need to display a license for code I am not using.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Cyan said:
Why don't you just remove your entry if the rules don't suit you or are not clear enough for you?
This is in no mean a law or legal forum, we do things for fun, for everybody to enjoy and make developing homebrew a fun activity. if you think it's a job and you are linked to any contract, this is not the place and you are mistaking the purpose and trying too hard to fit in.

Why would I remove it, for alleging the rules were unclear and deceptive?

Cyan · Dec 28, 2018

you act like you are unpleased and try really hard to make things the way you'd expected or hoped it to be.
the contest rules are the way staff decided, being understandable or not, being what you want or not, it'll be voted and like I said this is not a job. Don't enter FOR the money, nor expect prizes to be fairly distributed based on the amount of work or hours spent on a project. This is in no way a reward for a job. This is a contest, voted by random people around the world. If you want a reward, get a job. Like previous bounty session, the IDE developer wasn't happy because he got "only" 50$ for all the time he spent on his project and said we were just ungrateful, decided to stop releasing his tool for free (like if he won more it would have been enough to keep it free? he clearly entered out of nowhere a program he was working on for years without any interest to release it, but thought of doing it now due to a random bounty only for the money, not for the community or sharing his work, and he is not even happy to be one of the winner!). We are not judging how much your work is worth.

this is how it works, just enter or not, and let people vote and you'll see the results.
This is a vote, there are more entries than winning places, so of course there will be people who won't win at all. big, little or nothing, this is a GAME ! don't cry or get all above your horses for a random thing happening in your life. Get over it. stop trying to act like a law will save you and that you are right and all knowledgeable and others should comply because this is in no way a legal document nor a contract nor anything worth it.

Everyone : be happy if you win anything, just keep doing what you do like if there were no bounty : developing and releasing homebrew.

blawar · Dec 28, 2018

Cyan said:
you act like you are unpleased and try really hard to make things the way you'd expected or hoped it to be.
the contest rules are the way staff decided, being understandable or not, being what you want or not, it'll be voted and like I said this is not a job. Don't enter FOR the money, nor expect prizes to be fairly distributed based on the amount of work or hours spent on a project. This is in no way a reward for a job. This is a contest, votes by random people. If you want a reward, get a job. Like previous bounty session, the IDE developer wasn't happy because he got "only" 50$ for all the time he spent on his project and that we were just ungrateful, decided to stop releasing his tool for free (like if he won 1000$ it was enough to keep it free? he clearly entered out of nowhere a program he was working on for years for the money, not for the community or sharing his work). We are not judging how much your work is worth.

this is how it works, just enter or not, and let people vote and you'll see the results.
This is a vote, there are more entries than winning places, so of course there will be people who won't win at all. big, little or nothing, this is a GAME ! don't cry or get all above your horses for a random thing happening in your life. Get over it. stop trying to act like a law will save you and that you are right and all knowledgeable and others should comply because this is in no way a legal document nor a contract nor anything worth it.

I am unpleased, because I feel like the rules were not clearly defined and explained. Also, I am not sure why you think this is about money to me? I stated to several people, might as well state it here, that I plan to donate any money, if any, to Trump's 2020 campaign. I am also not sure why you think I think the app with the most work in it should win? The only grievance I have raised, is how the eligibility requirements were ambiguous and deceptive, not whether I agreed with the rules you guys chose or not. Just that the rules were not clearly communicated in a clear, concise way.

edit: and rather than just admit "yeah, we kind of bungled the contest opening a bit", I feel like you are doubling down and trying to accuse me of random unrelated stuff.

Cyan · Dec 28, 2018

I think you feel the money is important based on all your previous posts. Maybe I'm wrong, but all I saw are comments like "it only encourage people to wait to release something to gain the money instead of releasing the tool when ready".
there have been a lot of comments about this issue in the previous pages. and yes, that's how the bounty is. either you keep from releasing a tool and use the extra time to make it better, or you don't enter at all and release it anytime not for the money.

Like I said, this is just for fun with prizes. everyone is free to participate and can get something. Like tempmas you get prizes for just posting in a thread, etc. this is really nothing serious.
it's not a "real" bounty where you get a money for being the first to achieve a goal. there are sites for that, like making dynarec engines, etc.
It just makes me feel sorry that people are fighting for something which should be enjoyable.

the rules were clear for everyone else, you are the only one who didn't understand what the "window" meant : there are 4 sessions planned with each their own starting and ending dates which will be announced over the coming months, this is the "window" the rule refer to. it was clearly stated from the beginning that you had to release your homebrew in the said window (which mean the session for which you want to enter), or if you release it before it and still enter then you'll have to clearly state which major changes happened for it since any releases done before the starting window to be eligible for the active bounty session (window, whatever you want to call it).

The purpose of the current rule, and the reason we are doing it right now, is to encourage development of NEW projects and new homebrew, encouraging new and old developers from wii/wiiu/DS/3DS era alike to come and start participating now while the Switch scene is blooming, homebrew is starting and SDK is young. It wasn't meant to be a reward for all the already existing homebrew released this year. This is not the emmy award, Cannes and Oscars type of ceremony.
if at the same time it can allow old projects to get a major update, it's all for the best. We didn't want to limit the submission to new project only. maybe next time we should?

Ev1l0rd · Dec 28, 2018

blawar said:
Adubbz stated that I am not using any of his code, there is no need to display a license for code I am not using.

I'm not about to enter this argument again, but all I would specifically note is that you likely used libnx (actually you probably definetly did unless you went with libtransistor and I can say with practical guarantee you didn't use libtransistor because libtransistor is dead and besides, it's ISC anyway) and libnx is under the ISC (MIT with some lines removed thanks to the Berne convention): https://github.com/switchbrew/libnx/blob/master/LICENSE.md

So you'd need to reproduce the libnx ISC license in the application.

blawar · Dec 28, 2018

Cyan said:
I think you feel the money is important based on all your previous posts. Maybe I'm wrong, but all I saw are comments like "it only encourage people to wait to release something to gain the money instead of releasing the tool when ready".
there have been a lot of comments about this issue in the previous pages. and yes, that's how the bounty is. either you keep from releasing a tool and use the time to make it better, or you don't enter at all and release it anytime not for the money.

Like I said, this is just for fun with prizes. everyone is free to participate and can get something. Like tempmas you get prizes for just posting in a thread, etc. this is really nothing serious.
it's not a "real" bounty where you get a money for being the first to achieving a goal. there are sites for that, like making dynarec engines, etc.
It just makes me feel sorry that people are fighting for something which should be enjoyable.

the rules were clear for everyone else, you are the only one who didn't understand what the "window" meant : there are 4 sessions planned with each their own starting and ending dates which will be announced over the coming months, this is the "window" the rule refer to. it was clearly stated from the beginning that you had to release your homebrew in the said window (which mean the session for which you want to enter), or if you release it before it and still enter then you'll have to clearly state which major changes happened for it to be eligible for the active bounty session (window, whatever you want to call it).

On mobile, I think there is some confusion between us. If it was about winning money to me, i wouldn’t have submitted the app with a Trump theme. I am doing this for fun. I am just airing my grievance about how the rules were not clear in the beginning, while also criticizing some of the rules you did choose, with the hope that at least next year you might change it, to not encourage gamesmanship.

This contest should have been purely about fun, but now it is mired in dumb drama because of a poor explanation of the rules, and some bad rule decisions in general. I am sure other developers feel the same way, however most of them are more drama averse than I am.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Ev1l0rd said:
I'm not about to enter this argument again, but all I would specifically note is that you likely used libnx (actually you probably definetly did unless you went with libtransistor and I can say with practical guarantee you didn't use libtransistor because libtransistor is dead and besides, it's ISC anyway) and libnx is under the ISC (MIT with some lines removed thanks to the Berne convention): https://github.com/switchbrew/libnx/blob/master/LICENSE.md

So you'd need to reproduce the libnx ISC license in the application.

This is the first i am hearing about the libnx license, i just compiled with DKP. And assumed it was license free. I would like to point out that i have never seen any project, even a gpl project include the libnx license so it seems to be bad form to only accuse me of it.

Cyan · Dec 28, 2018

I'm sorry you found the rules not clear enough.
every time we make such contest, there are issues with users not understanding a part of it, and every time we try to fix or make things more clearer than previous ones.
We learn from things like that, comment from users, and try to make it understandable and without flow, but I guess there are always things we don't foresee.

I'm glad you also think it's a fun thing we are trying to do here.

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