Hacking Help us R4 team!!!

tropakeroro

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first sorry for my bad english im from spain.

well the Ds-X team its a SHI.... bad team...

we need help of another coders team.. like? R4 or another.


help us. somebody can mail R4 team?

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DS-X
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D

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I can't imagine a team selling their own flashcarts improving the DS-X's firmware (if that's what you meant).
 

dib

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Yeah, "let's put time and work into a competing product, with an architecture we didn't design and know nothing about!"

If you're ticked, bug them to open source it. That's the _only_ way you're going to see progress, and Guru sure isn't going to volunteer it out of the kindness of his heart. Lots of angry customers is often the only motivation.
 

dib

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I'm still wondering why people are calling that a copyright protection.

It's only a protection if it works. Somehow I doubt Nintendo is going to produce a protection on all their games which only foils the DS-X and none others. When every flash cart patched their products to override the so-called 'protection', there shouldn't have been any more games requiring patching. Personally, I doubt they pay that much attention to flash cards and the DS-X in particular. If they did, there would be more direct action mirroring Sony's with their PSP firmware updates or Apple vs. Iphone users.

For example, CD companies don't keep using the same protection on new albums after it's been defeated. Remember the one that could be circumvented by applying a black sharpie to the face of the disc? They didn't keep using that method after realizing that it didn't work.

This suggests to me that it's all coincidence.
 

XmemphistoX

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Yeah, the DS-X team is utter crap. For so much less you guys could get a product that is so much better. I feel sorry for all the guys who paid an arm and a leg for the 2GB version of it. Heck, I feel sorry for myself for getting the 512 meg version.
 

Neuromancer

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I'm still wondering why people are calling that a copyright protection.

It's only a protection if it works. Somehow I doubt Nintendo is going to produce a protection on all their games which only foils the DS-X and none others. When every flash cart patched their products to override the so-called 'protection', there shouldn't have been any more games requiring patching. Personally, I doubt they pay that much attention to flash cards and the DS-X in particular. If they did, there would be more direct action mirroring Sony's with their PSP firmware updates or Apple vs. Iphone users.

For example, CD companies don't keep using the same protection on new albums after it's been defeated. Remember the one that could be circumvented by applying a black sharpie to the face of the disc? They didn't keep using that method after realizing that it didn't work.

This suggests to me that it's all coincidence.

Well, what Nintendo has done here is limit flashcart activity in the US. Now, a device that autopatches around any method of copy protection whatsoever is considered an illegal modchip. Therefore, even if every 8 year old out there knows how to crack the ARM7 protection, it still prevents US-based companies from releasing an ARM7 proof cart. Why else would it be so easy to circumvent? You can just take the arm7.bin file from an old game and the protection goes away? It's more of a copy protection joke than a copy protection scheme, I agree, but as a cart blocker it serves its intended purpose.

None of this changes the CHOICES of Team DS-X: They still refuse to fix the "FUTURE PROOF FLASHCART" that we all bought in good faith, and they still just grin and shrug whenever someone mentions their earlier PROMISE that "Updates will continue to be released in order to keeping clean list compatibility as close to 100% as possible". Now, as far as official DS-X history is concerned, the DS-X was never, ever, ever intended to run ROMS at all. The Datel Games N Music simply looks at the header and refuses to run any .nds file with a commercial header. I wonder why a homebrew-only cart like the DS-X has limited homebrew support and no anti pirate measures at all? Hmmm....
 

dib

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Except that Nintendo has attempted that in the past and _lost_. During the NES era, Tengen produced a series of unlicensed games for the console by circumventing Nintendo's 10NES protection. 10NES utilized both a hardware solution and encryption key, which Tengen willingly duplicated (and through highly questionable means) in order to make their games work on the NES. Nintendo filed lawsuit against Tengen and they couldn't follow through.

So there is a clear precedence for circumventing that sort of protection in order to produce a third party product. Nintendo couldn't do anything to the flash card manufacturers.

Of course, that doesn't stop Nintendo from trying anyway, you can always sue somebody and whether you'll win is a whole other case. But if they were paying such close attention they would know that every one of them have circumvented it, so why haven't lawsuits been filed? R4 would have gotten a C&D months ago.
 

golden

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Except that Nintendo has attempted that in the past and _lost_. During the NES era, Tengen produced a series of unlicensed games for the console by circumventing Nintendo's 10NES protection. 10NES utilized both a hardware solution and encryption key, which Tengen willingly duplicated (and through highly questionable means) in order to make their games work on the NES. Nintendo filed lawsuit against Tengen and they couldn't follow through.

So there is a clear precedence for circumventing that sort of protection in order to produce a third party product. Nintendo couldn't do anything to the flash card manufacturers.

Of course, that doesn't stop Nintendo from trying anyway, you can always sue somebody and whether you'll win is a whole other case. But if they were paying such close attention they would know that every one of them have circumvented it, so why haven't lawsuits been filed? R4 would have gotten a C&D months ago.
Ya, but Atari won the most decisive lawsuite so that's all that matters. The one where even if you own a ROM, backing it up is illegal. It just goes to show you that they,as in the gaming industry, mostly sony, can get serious about stuff.
 

dib

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Roms are irrelevant to the development of the DS-X, unless they're planning to distribute them with New SMB already copied on (come to think of it, mine shipped with a copy of the Franklin game and an mp3, anybody else experience something like this?) We're talking about whether they can circumvent a (purported) copyright protection measure.

It would be more relevant to relate cases like DVD Jon and DeCSS. They attempted to prosecute him for publishing a DVD copy circumvention method, and failed.
 

Neuromancer

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Of course, that doesn't stop Nintendo from trying anyway, you can always sue somebody and whether you'll win is a whole other case.  But if they were paying such close attention they would know that every one of them have circumvented it, so why haven't lawsuits been filed?  R4 would have gotten a C&D months ago.

Interesting, never heard about the Tengen incident before now. I'll have to google that. What I said about Nintendo's motive for the ARM7 protection is just my opinion/guess though. I don't have access to any secret info from Ninty or DS-X. As far as lawsuits go, the law I'm talking about only applies to the US, and the only flashcart manufacturer in the US (that I know of) is DS-X. I've never had an R4, so I don't know much about it, but I thought it was from a Chinese company?
 

dib

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It actually makes for a fascinating read. Tengen couldn't abide by Nintendo's draconian licensing terms so they essentially stole the information necessary to develop the workaround for NES10, etc. Read more on something like 1up, overview of Nintendo lawsuits through time, Wikipedia profile for Tengen, and plenty of other sources.

But that's pretty much what I meant, so far I haven't seen anything that actually _tells me_ arm7 is involved in any sort of copyright protection scheme, and from my general reasoning I suspect it's mere coincidence. The fact that arm7 has become synonymous with copyright protection appears to be rampant speculation.

R4's geographic location could be relevant, I've seen countless stories about commercial and political attempts to fight piracy over there. All the actual efforts I've ever seen though are aimed at bootleggers. Some guy selling bootlegs of Final Fantasy games or The Little Mermaid on DVD isn't the same thing as developing a third party backup/homebrew device, and all the actions from companies like Nintendo seem to suggest they don't perceive them as the same.

Again, I think it comes down to convenient excuses. We see a lot of those around here. And like you said, none of it changes the fact that we still had Guru running around telling people a much different story when DS-X went on market.
 

reveng

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It actually makes for a fascinating read.  Tengen couldn't abide by Nintendo's draconian licensing terms so they essentially stole the information necessary to develop the workaround for NES10, etc.  Read more on something like 1up, overview of Nintendo lawsuits through time, Wikipedia profile for Tengen, and plenty of other sources.

But that's pretty much what I meant, so far I haven't seen anything that actually _tells me_ arm7 is involved in any sort of copyright protection scheme, and from my general reasoning I suspect it's mere coincidence.  The fact that arm7 has become synonymous with copyright protection appears to be rampant speculation.

R4's geographic location could be relevant, I've seen countless stories about commercial and political attempts to fight piracy over there.  All the actual efforts I've ever seen though are aimed at bootleggers.  Some guy selling bootlegs of Final Fantasy games or The Little Mermaid on DVD isn't the same thing as developing a third party backup/homebrew device, and all the actions from companies like Nintendo seem to suggest they don't perceive them as the same.

Again, I think it comes down to convenient excuses.  We see a lot of those around here.  And like you said, none of it changes the fact that we still had Guru running around telling people a much different story when DS-X went on market.


This ones also a good read Accolade Vs Sega

http://digital-law-online.info/cases/24PQ2D1561.htm



R....
 

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