Healthcare in the USA is a joke and I'll tell you why

PuNKeMoN

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Let me start by saying I reap the benefits of Capitalism, and there is much it has done for fostering human development.

However, sometimes making a buck gets in the way of destroys the true purpose of an industry. Medicine comes to mind. There's no profits in curing illness, so it is treated instead. This seems like the mindset of a sociopath rather than that of someone who wishes to help people. Yet here Americans are, ignorant of any better way.

Health insurance is another bilking of the American people. The idea is if one pays into this system, the company will provide funding in the event of an emergency or health crisis. Unfortunately, the company decides what they help pay for. Oh, and in the USA, having health insurance is required by law. Either one pays an exorbitant amount for coverage from whatever company their employer provides, or they can find their own. Lower income families can file for benefits from their respective state. I myself have been in a situation where my paycheck wasn't enough to cover either the insurance my employer partnered with or private insurance, yet the state told me I made too much to qualify for public aid.

Ideally, having insurance should alleviate or absolve one from financial responsibility if they visit a doctor or hospital or need a prescription. It doesn't exactly work that way though. Oftentimes the payments a person makes towards insurance equal the payment the insurance makes on a medical bill. I've had a hospital bill where my insurance paid absolutely nothing. So, what's the point of having insurance then? Oh, right... Americans who don't have health insurance are breaking a law.

I've stumbled upon a fallacy here. How can one be a good consumer and feed the greedy system of Capitalism for an adequate lifetime if they have poor health and die at an early age? Wouldn't it benefit the economy if all members were able to work while blindly consuming and living to a ripe old age? Isn't that the major goal of Capitalism? Wouldn't some sort of healthcare plan that isn't a business make such a thing possible?

In the end, some industries ought not to be a business, and healthcare is one of them. How long until the greater portion of the US populace understands this?
 

ClassyDragon

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The healthcare system here has been a bad experience for me personally. I have insurance and yet I still have nearly had to pay full price for an emergency procedure because my insurance refused to.
I know plenty of people who can't afford healthcare and would probably be screwed if they had the same emergency I had. It's quite pathetic.
 

Xzi

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Entirely too many people have never once traveled outside the US, so they have no idea how much we're getting completely fucked over in regards to healthcare. The UK is soon to share in our suffering too. Sorry in advance.
 

Super.Nova

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Where I live, healthcare is completely free and the government would pay your bill if you had to be treated in a private hospital.
The major problem with that is people stopped caring for their own health and would deliberately do harmful things to themselves.

I work in a trauma center and people (I refuse to call them patients as they are healthier than me!) often come asking for X-Rays they don't need.
Whenever I try to convince them to forego the unnecessary dose of radiation, they literally tell me to buzz off as if it wasn't my job to do so.
People with diabetes and plethora of other chronic diseases don't take their medications and pay a visit to ER with a boatload of complications of the same diseases only to return later due to the same complications because they didn't give a fudge on their earlier visit.

Forcing someone to pay for their health is a good thing as it would make them pay more attention.
True accidents or things of which could never be avoided are an entirely different story that I believe should be treated for free, at least for humane reasons, as healthcare is not a business.


P.S.: I'm obligated by law to follow patients' demands or otherwise would be liable for punishment.
 
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morvoran

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Healthcare in America does suck which is why Trump is trying to fix it. Unfortunately, we have a party of power hungry idiots who would rather waste our/their time, taxes, etc trying to impeach him instead of fixing what needs fixing. Trump has already signed executive orders forcing hospitals to be transparent in their pricing which means you will know before hand if you will get gouged by that hospital. This way, you can shop around for the cheapest surgeries and bring competition into the healthcare market. His admin is also trying to work on lowering prescription costs.

If the do nothing democrats would work with him on actual policies rather than running a fake impeachment circus, maybe we can have actual "change we can believe in" in America which no other administration has done before.

I think if the democrats would drop their own government provided healthcare and had to use the ACA health insurance system, which they thought was so good enough for us that they would not allow anybody to know what was in it until it passed, I'm sure our Healthcare system would be a top priority to them.
 
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Xzi

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We have the internet. You don't have to travel to know there are better healthcare systems.
The internet is too often used by people for the sole purpose of reflecting their own opinions back at them. It's amazing how many idiots I've seen declaring that our system has to be the best in the world simply because it's the most expensive.

Talking to people of other nations face-to-face is life experience that can't truly be replicated by the internet. Of course, I'm aware that there are economic factors which prohibit a lot of people from doing that, but healthcare costs loom large among those factors, so it's all connected.
 
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Lacius

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Healthcare in America does suck which is why Trump is trying to fix it.
This would be laughable if it weren't so tragic. Trump is seeking, among other things, to remove pre-existing conditions protections, to make it harder to get insurance through the ACA exchanges, and to make it harder to get insurance through Medicaid. These things aside, there is no such thing as a Republican plan for health care, since the ACA was the Republican plan.
 

Xzi

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This would be laughable if it weren't so tragic. Trump is seeking, among other things, to remove pre-existing conditions protections, to make it harder to get insurance through the ACA exchanges, and to make it harder to get insurance through Medicaid. These things aside, there is no such thing as a Republican plan for health care, since the ACA was the Republican plan.
Yep, the ACA was a compromise, it's basically Romneycare. Not a single other Republican has presented any sort of healthcare plan. They've been saying they're "working on it" for like eight years now.
 

spotanjo3

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The healthcare system here has been a bad experience for me personally. I have insurance and yet I still have nearly had to pay full price for an emergency procedure because my insurance refused to.
I know plenty of people who can't afford healthcare and would probably be screwed if they had the same emergency I had. It's quite pathetic.

No wonder America sucks, sorry. Good thing I am going back to Portugal soon even thought I am dual citizens. Been here for about 40 years. Not happy here. Crazy America.
 

ClassyDragon

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No wonder America sucks, sorry. Good thing I am going back to Portugal soon even thought I am dual citizens. Been here for about 40 years. Not happy here. Crazy America.
I can't blame you. I love America but our healhcare system is in need of massive reform. I can't imagine myself living somewhere else but I worry everyday about having another emergency, one where life and death could be determined by my insurance's decision to cover me. It's sad to see other countries have such good implementations of it while people around me have to ration insulin or other medications to not go bankrupt :(
 

spotanjo3

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I can't blame you. I love America but our healhcare system is in need of massive reform. I can't imagine myself living somewhere else but I worry everyday about having another emergency, one where life and death could be determined by my insurance's decision to cover me. It's sad to see other countries have such good implementations of it while people around me have to ration insulin or other medications to not go bankrupt :(


Yeah. Thats alright. Not only healthcare issues here but cost of living here is higher than in my country. Thats my reasons why I am fed up with here. Tax here is VERY expensive.. much higher than my country.

And I missed my country a lot and my culture. I don't liked America's culture. Very different and too many snobs here. In my country, affectionate and everyone always say good morning even at the bars and restaurants. They greets each others. And many more. Not the same in here. Here is dangerous. Shooting on the news all the time here.

Again, not only the healthcare problems here but cost of living issues here as well.
 
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RationalityIsLost101

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Where I live, healthcare is completely free and the government would pay your bill if you had to be treated in a private hospital.
The major problem with that is people stopped caring for their own health and would deliberately do harmful things to themselves.

I work in a trauma center and people (I refuse to call them patients as they are healthier than me!) often come asking for X-Rays they don't need.
Whenever I try to convince them to forego the unnecessary dose of radiation, they literally tell me to buzz off as if it wasn't my job to do so.
People with diabetes and plethora of other chronic diseases don't take their medications and pay a visit to ER with a boatload of complications of the same diseases only to return later due to the same complications because they didn't give a fudge on their earlier visit.

Forcing someone to pay for their health is a good thing as it would make them pay more attention.
True accidents or things of which could never be avoided are an entirely different story that I believe should be treated for free, at least for humane reasons, as healthcare is not a business.


P.S.: I'm obligated by law to follow patients' demands or otherwise would be liable for punishment.

As someone who is also familiar with patients in the ER, much of your complaints are the same here in the US, despite that we appear to differ on what is an acceptable method of payment for healthcare services (ie taxation for nationalized healthcare vs privatized insurance w/ co-payments).

Patients have rights here as well, as long as they contain the capacity to make an informed and voluntary decision, they will dictate their healthcare choices. They will be provided with enough information to make an informed decision but we will let them choose. I note we are obligated to provide full information about what the treatment involves, including the benefits and risks, whether there are reasonable alternative treatments, and what will happen if no treatment occurs. Although its subjective how one defines reasonable alternative treatments and I know many who only provide alternatives when requested and are much more authoritarian with their patients care.

In my opinion co-payments just put a paywall in front of services like primary care which can prevent costly ER visits and hospitalizations if patients are counseled and educated to be proactive. However, we (in the US) bill services in a manner that is fee for service instead of a different measure which doesn't reward physicians that spend the extra 10-15min per patient. Hospitals have minimum patients served and they will fire physicians who aren't profitable enough. Cow-herding is a term I use privately to describe it. While there have been recent efforts to reward primary care initiative and penalize readmission to hospitals for repetitive chief complaint. People find ways to fake the paperwork to circumvent such accountability.

The difference is people who are on private plans are likely:

1. Not on medicaid/medicare (ie of a certain age group that requires less care for chronic issues).
2. To be employed and thus are less likely to be impoverished.
3. With a higher socioeconomic status and obtain a higher literacy in regarding healthcare matters.

I'm not trying to oversimplify this conversation as there is so much more depth available to introduce and discuss but am trying to stay concise as to not get lost on a tangent.

TLDR: Just wanting to portray that Physicians (healthcare providers) in America have equal struggles providing quality care and educating our patients. They also retain the freedom to choose what happens to their bodies and at times make choices that are disheartening.
 

Super.Nova

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As someone who is also familiar with patients in the ER, much of your complaints are the same here in the US, despite that we appear to differ on what is an acceptable method of payment for healthcare services (ie taxation for nationalized healthcare vs privatized insurance w/ co-payments).

Patients have rights here as well, as long as they contain the capacity to make an informed and voluntary decision, they will dictate their healthcare choices. They will be provided with enough information to make an informed decision but we will let them choose. I note we are obligated to provide full information about what the treatment involves, including the benefits and risks, whether there are reasonable alternative treatments, and what will happen if no treatment occurs. Although its subjective how one defines reasonable alternative treatments and I know many who only provide alternatives when requested and are much more authoritarian with their patients care.

In my opinion co-payments just put a paywall in front of services like primary care which can prevent costly ER visits and hospitalizations if patients are counseled and educated to be proactive. However, we (in the US) bill services in a manner that is fee for service instead of a different measure which doesn't reward physicians that spend the extra 10-15min per patient. Hospitals have minimum patients served and they will fire physicians who aren't profitable enough. Cow-herding is a term I use privately to describe it. While there have been recent efforts to reward primary care initiative and penalize readmission to hospitals for repetitive chief complaint. People find ways to fake the paperwork to circumvent such accountability.

The difference is people who are on private plans are likely:

1. Not on medicaid/medicare (ie of a certain age group that requires less care for chronic issues).
2. To be employed and thus are less likely to be impoverished.
3. With a higher socioeconomic status and obtain a higher literacy in regarding healthcare matters.

I'm not trying to oversimplify this conversation as there is so much more depth available to introduce and discuss but am trying to stay concise as to not get lost on a tangent.

TLDR: Just wanting to portray that Physicians (healthcare providers) in America have equal struggles providing quality care and educating our patients. They also retain the freedom to choose what happens to their bodies and at times make choices that are disheartening.

That is exactly how a paid service is supposed to be and I wholeheartedly agree with this method "except for true emergency cases ofwhich not caused by neglect."
I'm well known among many circles of non-legible patients (emigrants not covered by government healthcare program) to go the extra mile and I'm happy to do my job the best I could.
What I'm not happy about is anybody willfully throwing away their health and demand that you patch them up like new whenever they feel like it.

And in regards to the "whenever they feel like it" part, I've often seen patients brought to ER by ambulance only to find their onset of complaint started a couple of months ago.
With further history taking, it becomes apparent that they have the ulterior motive of acquiring a sick leave.
They either didn't care to get it treated sooner or at least kept it as an open ticket to get sick leaves whenever they want and they never face the paywall for their decisions as they'd pay more attention to their health.
Also, sick leaves here free you of any legal issues (traffic fines, court hearings and even accusations for killing someone).

Luckily, it's planned to change the whole system to divert the entire healthcare system to the Civic and private sectors equally through insurance companies.
Sure, everyone will be getting their health insurance for free, but many wouldn't due to outstanding amount of traffic violations and any other legal issues (some going up to $500k in traffic violations).
Also, insurance companies wouldn't pay for the aforementioned unnecessary X-Ray to accommodate someone's comfort zone and would have to pay for it.

Even then, the problem is the ethical application of an insurance provider forcing someone to pay for anything that should be covered by the insurance as often happens in the US.
I choose to do my best job either way but it'll leave much out of my hand to truly help the sick and needy.
 
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Arecaidian Fox

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Eliminating the Chargemaster and the practices associated with compiling and enforcing it would certainly help a lot towards improving things. You know, provided something reasonable gets implemented in place, not that I'd trust that to happen right now.
 
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