Question HBG shop new update and no full ram access

Verin Sep 13, 2019.

  1. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    Please explain how it was a disaster or where SciresM said it was "worthless."

    The protections are not 100% effective, but they're better than nothing. The fact that Incognito is incompatible is irrelevant, since you only need to run Incognito once to install it, and it's easy to do.
     
  2. blawar

    blawar Developer

    pip Developer
    11
    Nov 21, 2016
    United States
    They arent even 1% effective. To bypass the protection, a homebrew app just needs to write the flag file to the sd card. Think about it, if nand writes were blocked by atmosphere, how would choi install system updates? Choi writes the flag itself to the SD card, to give itself write access to your nand, and then writes to it. This is why atmosphere's bis protection is a meme and completely worthless.
     
  3. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    1. All of the prodinfo brickers that preceded this (and caused the protection to be implemented in the first place) are defeated by this protection.
    2. You can't argue that the protection is pointless while simultaneously arguing that it gets in the way of Incognito. If it's so easy to bypass the protections, do it. If it's more trouble than it's worth, then the protections aren't worthless.
    3. You haven't shown me where SciresM said the protections are "worthless."
    4. You haven't shown me where the protections have actually caused bricks.
    5. CAL0 isn't writeable with flags, only readable, and you know that is why Incognito doesn't work and why the protection isn't worthless.
    6. This doesn't address any of the other problems with your malicious additions to Tinfoil.
    7. This doesn't address the the pretense for the malware being nonsense.
     
    Ashura66 likes this.
  4. blawar

    blawar Developer

    pip Developer
    11
    Nov 21, 2016
    United States
    Im confused, are you challenging me to write an atmosphere bricker? because that is trivial. Brickachu came out like 4 months before atmosphere implemented its bis write, and the latest XCI bricker did affect atmosphere.

    As for the protection causing bricks, search the incognito thread. It is not recommend to run incognito on vanilla atmosphere because sometimes atmosphere lets some of the writes through, bricking the user.

    You can sit there and cry about it, call it malware, whatever you want. The fork stays, and no amount of whining is going to change that. So you can either cry about it some more in this thread, accuse it of touching you whatever, or you can get over it or use a different installer? I'm sorry you dont like the changes I made to atmosphere, you are free to file a complaint to our customer service department.
     
  5. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    No. If you are going to argue the protections are easily bypassed, do so with Incognito. You can't whine that the protections suck because they interfere with Incognito while simultaneously arguing the protections are trivial. Which is it?

    Yes, and?

    Yes, and?

    You seem to be confusing "Atmosphere caused bricks" with "Incognito caused bricks."

    Telling me I'm "crying about it" doesn't mean it's not malware. I'm going to call out malware when I see it. At the very least, you can acknowledge the changes in the changelog instead of being deceptive about imaginary bugs or whatever.

    Well, I'm using it without the malware, so no.

    Arguing against a crying strawman instead of actually refuting my points above doesn't help the case that it's not malware.

    As I already said near the beginning, I can't recommend using Tinfoil with the malware attached. Thanks though for giving me permission to do what I already said I'd be doing.

    If your goal isn't to make useful tools or to desire feedback to make your tools better, what are you even doing here? The malware is bad and disliked. If that doesn't bother you, great, but that doesn't really make sense if your goal is to make good tools that people like. I could be wrong, but my guess is that's not your goal.
     
    Ashura66 likes this.
  6. frankadank

    frankadank Advanced Member

    Newcomer
    2
    Dec 4, 2017
    United States
    Don't give blawar ideas guys :glare:
     
    Lacius likes this.
  7. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    According to his words, he already did that with Incognito.
     
  8. blawar

    blawar Developer

    pip Developer
    11
    Nov 21, 2016
    United States
    No, atmosphere bricked the user. Had atmosphere allowed all of the writes through, it would not have bricked. Byt blocking some of the writes and not others, atmosphere caused the brick.
     
  9. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    If your app is incompatible with Atmosphere and caused a brick, Incognito caused the brick.

    If I published an app that bricked my PC because it was incompatible with the latest version of Windows 10, particularly if the app was designed to modify crucial system files, the app is what bricked the computer, not Windows 10. In fact, to make this analogy work, my app is published months after the new version of Windows 10 is released.

    Sorry, buddy.
     
    Ashura66 and hippy dave like this.
  10. blawar

    blawar Developer

    pip Developer
    11
    Nov 21, 2016
    United States
    Negative, there is a bug in atmosphere that caused the brick by not reliably blocking all nand writes, directly causing corruption of the nand. Incognito states it is not compatible with atmosphere, feel free to open a github issue with atmosphere about its brick bug, or run my fork

    it’s actually really ironic that the atmosphere feature that is supposed to prevent bricks, causes bricks.
     
  11. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    If Incognito has to be labeled as not compatible with Atmosphere because it allegedly causes bricks on Atmosphere, then Incognito is what causes bricks on Atmosphere. Atmosphere isn't bricking systems by itself. Please re-read my analogy. Even if we agree the brick happens because of what you describe as a "bug" with Atmosphere, it's still Incognito causing the brick. However, we're arguing semantics at this point.

    I am not calling Incognito a bad piece of software. I like Incognito. However, it's blatantly incorrect to say "Atmosphere bricks the user." It's "using Incognito with Atmosphere" that allegedly bricks the user. I use the word "allegedly" because I just scoured the Incognito thread, and although I could have missed it, I didn't find a single case of a brick on Atmosphere caused by Incognito.

    Also, we are way off-topic, and you haven't addressed most of my points about your unnecessary malware in Tinfoil.
     
    Ashura66 likes this.
  12. blawar

    blawar Developer

    pip Developer
    11
    Nov 21, 2016
    United States

    You are correct, your ranting have made me see the error in my ways, i’ll just block all atmosphere next patch problem solved right?
     
    gizmomelb, danfozzy85 and HtheB like this.
  13. HtheB

    HtheB GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    8
    May 15, 2006
    Netherlands
    Bize Her Yer Trabzon
    I would say: Do it!
    I always wonder why Atmosphere users whine about everything and trying to start a flame war....
    I've never saw SX OS users doing that (:
    blawar ftw
     
    Verin and gizmomelb like this.
  14. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    Have you heard the phrase "the pot calling the kettle black"? I wouldn't call it "ranting," but if that's what we're going to call it, you've done just as much "ranting" as I have.

    If we ignore that, like with the malware, there's no actual reason to block Atmosphere aside from your own emotional hang-ups and pettiness, then I support this decision.

    If it were me, I'd either work to make sure Tinfoil was compatible with Atmosphere (it already is, without the malware), or I'd just ignore the existence of Atmosphere during Tinfoil development while saying Atmosphere isn't officially supported. If it worked with Atmosphere, great, but if it didn't, it wouldn't be my problem.

    Checkpoint is a good example of what to do (and what not to do). Checkpoint blocked applet mode, and people (who were mostly confused) thought it was a bug spoke up. In response, Checkpoint unblocked applet mode but included a disclaimer about applet mode not being supported if it detected the use of applet mode. Doing something similar with Tinfoil is probably the best option for someone who doesn't want to dirty his hands with Atmosphere.

    Forcing malware and/or intentionally sabotaging the use of Tinfoil on Atmosphere seem to come from a place of pettiness, particularly when neither solves any sort of problem. The patched version of Tinfoil works just fine with vanilla Atmosphere. Vanilla Tinfoil also worked just fine on vanilla Atmosphere before the malware was added.

    There's a difference between "whining" and acknowledging the use of malware that intentionally disrupts one's CFW-usage.
     
    Ashura66 likes this.
  15. HtheB

    HtheB GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    8
    May 15, 2006
    Netherlands
    Bize Her Yer Trabzon
    There's a difference between "acknowledging the use of malware that intentionally disrupts one's CFW-usage" and admitting that the CFW itself being the problem, as it works perfectly fine on other CFW's ;)
     
    gizmomelb likes this.
  16. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    1. It works fine on other custom firmwares because the malware doesn't target other custom firmwares.
    2. Without the malware, Tinfoil works fine with Atmosphere.
     
  17. HtheB

    HtheB GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    8
    May 15, 2006
    Netherlands
    Bize Her Yer Trabzon
    1. If it was malware, it would target everything.
    2. Just get over with it, don't use it if you think it's malware or change your CFW. No one stops you for using other CFW's.
    3. No one stops you either for developing or forking your own version.
     
  18. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    That's not how malware works.

    1. It's fine to acknowledge the malware. I'm going to call out malware where I see it. "Sit down, shut up, and get over it" isn't much of a counterargument against the malware.
    2. I am using a patched version of Tinfoil without the malware on vanilla Atmosphere.
    3. If #2 weren't an option, I wouldn't use Tinfoil.
    4. Atmosphere is, in my opinion, the best CFW, and I'm unlikely to use anything else.

    I don't have to. A patched version already exists.
     
    Ashura66 likes this.
  19. LightBeam

    LightBeam GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    3
    Oct 1, 2018
    France
    "The game I'm trying to play on Debian isn't the problem since it works flawlessly on Windows, Debian is the problem"
     
  20. Engezerstorung

    Engezerstorung GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    5
    Nov 9, 2011
    France
    about incognito bricking :
    so basically he can write his homebrew so it doesnt launch if things arent installed like he want them to be, to force user to install the full package or nothing, and with all the shit it does, but he cant write incognito to refuse to be used if not full write access is detected to avoid his own software he made to brick people? (because YES incognito is a program that launch into an environnement, if it use brick the environment, the software is at cause, not the environment; if a disease kill you its the disease fault, not the host one)

    ...i didn't say anything until know, but wow boi, how amazed i am to see how that guy manage to be an dick every.single.time

    damn, if the applet mode change were such a problem for him he could have forket only this, or madea sysmodule, or i dont know what, to have the applet mode act like he want, without touching the title redirection... but nooo...

    and "brickers still exist so bis protection doesnt protect against bricking", it protect against the bricks that happened before it was implemented, it protect against erasing those infos... its like saying "nintendo stability update arent update to block hack at all because hack still happen", if it wasnt there there would be even more way to brick people switch... for fck sake...
     
    Last edited by Engezerstorung, Sep 22, 2019
    Ashura66, hippy dave and LightBeam like this.
Quick Reply
Draft saved Draft deleted
Loading...