Google Stadia launches today to mixed reception over input lag

Discussion in 'GBAtemp & Scene News' started by Chary, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. codezer0

    codezer0 Gaming keeps me sane

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    Spoiler alert: Google stadia (the controller) is basically evidence that Google doesn't give a flying eff about right to repair.



    Good lord, I hope nobody here is stupid enough to buy this after seeing what a hot mess it is to even open up when it eventually stops working.
     
  2. comput3rus3r

    comput3rus3r GBAtemp Psycho!

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    Wow I mean look at this disaster of a controller. Forget ever trying to fix your google stadia controller yourself. LMAO
     
    Last edited by comput3rus3r, Nov 20, 2019
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  3. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    So not even a particularly nice controller on the internals either - carbon, cheapo dome switches and I can't tell what the sticks are like but they don't particularly enthuse either.
     
  4. DarkKaine

    DarkKaine GBAtemp Fan

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    No shit. You're literally playing a movie. I've tried all the streaming apps out there. None are better than another. There's nothing to improve either because latency is a mandatory restriction that isn't going to be solved in a very long time. Sure it works, but any decent action game is just going to feel shit to play. Try megaman with input lag and good fucking luck lol.
     
  5. RivenMain

    RivenMain GBAtemp Regular

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    It's more for countries with super fast internet, or google fiber internet. You can't take a shitty internet speed and consider it will be any faster.


    Thing I hate rather of Stadia is you don't OWN the games you buy. so if it gets deleted from ur library somehow rip you. and if you don't wanna pay for the subscription you can't play it either.
    Meanwhile Xbox beta >.> As long as you download the games even if ur subscriptions expired u can play all those games and play them online if you want. totally worth trying out.
     
  6. DANTENDO

    DANTENDO I Won year sub Edge mag 1996 hot topic digitiser

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    Because Nintendo and Sony own Japan
     
  7. raxadian

    raxadian GBAtemp Maniac

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    Only because Japanese love portable consoles.
     
  8. Xabring

    Xabring GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Somewhere, Earth.
    I saw it coming months away.

    And if it doens't work in the suburbs and cities, this is even MORE useless in rural areas.
     
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  9. leon315

    leon315 POWERLIFTER

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    Dude, you forget 5G, year 2020 will be the year of 5G! So technically almost everyone will have a mobile 1gigabit fast connection next year....

    I play competevely overwatch, Here in Italy with an average 100mbps fiber, I get 30-35 pings to nearest server, Maybe you won't believe this, I shared my 4G connection with my laptop when I travel, and I get stable 45-50 pings! I did so many times, and this what a 4G can achieve! Then Think about when there will be 5G connections in 2020, it will literally make any traditional cable Internet obsolete!
     
  10. kai_dranzer2003

    kai_dranzer2003 Advanced Member

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    RIP Stadia
    2019-2019

    :cry:

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —
     
  11. DANTENDO

    DANTENDO I Won year sub Edge mag 1996 hot topic digitiser

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    Not quite as it will launch in other countries 2020:D
     
  12. Delerious

    Delerious GBAtemp Regular

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    Even better is their review video. Steve said it best regarding getting Stadia to work: "we all died in a car crash and this is actually hell"
     
  13. Kubas_inko

    Kubas_inko "Something funny goes here."

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    Yes. Can't wait for a 20gb cap and overpriced tariff (idk if that's what it is called on english).

    I will say the same as I did with USB-C few years back. It might be the future, but the future is not now.
    Althoug I wouldn't call this the future, but it will definitely work better in the future. We are just not ready for a widespread game streaming.
     
  14. the_randomizer

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    And to think that people genuinely defend and are open for cloud gaming :lol: People who invest in this deserve to lose access to their games when servers shut down.
     
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  15. leon315

    leon315 POWERLIFTER

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    it will depends how Trade war ends: if USA wins, which unlikely, USA will gain 5G's monopoly and will have to overcharge you all, fortunately Italy which joined ''One belt one road'' program, we all use Huawei's 5G equipments, so we can all benefits this competitive cheap internet service: i have unlimited 4GLTE without data cap, neither fiber connections, so i highly doubt 5G will.

    I'm almost feel sorry that american have to deal it because of that indian baby, alongside the orange crybaby.
     
    Last edited by leon315, Nov 21, 2019
  16. AlexMCS

    AlexMCS Advanced Member

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    it's funny how people still think that network speed/bandwidth can solve latency issues.
    The internet is already pretty damn awesome when it comes to latency.
    The velocity factor (VF - % of the speed of light) of current physical transmission media is already around 64-70%.

    Even with a ton of technological improvements, latency won't ever be able to improve more than ~50%.
    That means a 120ms lag won't get better than 90ms. Ever.
    At the very least until we figure out teleportation.

    In other words, transmission infrastructure won't improve latency.
    Creating a ton of datacenters would be the only semi viable alternative, but it likely won't be feasible.

    The alternative, as mentioned before, is predictive AI, which, as also mentioned before, has a ton of issues.
    The best solution at the moment is pre-rendering frames of all possible input combinations, which is incredibly resource heavy (prohibitive, even) since the amount of possible frames is exponential based on possible input combinations, which, for a regular action-adventure game, are in the ballpark of almost a thousand possibilities before filtering.

    For the math, assume at most 3 simultaneous button presses and an analog stick input of at most 8 directions with 3 stages of sensibility = 925 inputs possible per frame before filtering.

    Predicting 1 single frame forces such a game to have to render (not to mention maintaining the game state of) 925 possible frames.
    Predicting 2 frames would be 925², almost a million frames, and so on...

    The only way to avoid stutter would be to pre-render and send all those 925 frames to the client every second.
    To save a single frame of input lag. then the target device would need to have enough memory to hold those 925 frames, which means, with good compression, at 720p, ~500KB per frame, or 462.5MB(!!) per second, which would need a 4 Gbps connection (!!!).

    It would kill some people's data caps in under 10 minutes. Even cutting that value to 10% by using predictive AI and filtered inputs, that is a constant 400Mbps and 46MB of RAM just to save a single input frame of latency, requiring 900x for a second frame saved.

    TL;DR - 5G won't solve it. Higher speeds won't solve it. AI won't solve it. Game streaming (for 60fps action games) is a failed endeavor by design. It might work for turn based RPGs, puzzle games etc. that require zero reaction, like Pokémon.
     
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  17. the_randomizer

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    Or, you know, don't let the future of gaming be streaming only, because it's something that will never work properly. If I'm going to spend money on a game, let me keep the damn game and not have to pay for a service on top of paying for each game. Only way will I ever accept it is if all games are available to stream from the get go.
     
  18. DarkCoffe64

    DarkCoffe64 Bo

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    Hey guys, google's already changed the logo for their stadia, eh
     
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  19. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    It can work.
    Make a rack of computers capable of rendering the games.
    Stick them either in/next to the exchange for that town, or if you have a decent cabinet then once of those (or possibly if a block of flats has an internet room then that). At that point you are dealing with low distances and thus, assuming you do it something that is even vaguely like properly, low pings which will be within acceptable ranges. Companies already do similar things in the case of high frequency trading, and various video streaming services and data delivery services also do similar things to dodge bandwidth charges (local ISPs don't care much what runs through their own gear but when they have to pay internet backbone charges that is a different matter, see also part of the fun and games with net neutrality the other year/to this day as I doubt such things are going away any time soon).
    I would agree that this is not something you can stick in a data centre somewhere with cheap people, cheap bandwidth and/or cheap electricity and hope to spew it thousands of kilometres if you aspire to real time games, or real time games with player interaction*. The above solutions also cost considerable money and possibly limit your audience (though country dwellers are probably used to getting the short end of the stick when it comes to internet services) but to say they can never work is bad science.

    *for rhythm games if the latency is predictable you can change the cues/interaction points. Many gamers probably already do something like it if they suffer a poor TV or setup where they will go on an earlier cue instead of the dev intended one. If it is a game of clicking on someone other human controlled head then no chance.

    This is also saying nothing of figuring out what you can offload to a remote server and have what is nowadays a fairly modest machine (I don't know offhand what modern cheap mobile phone boards or things like the intel nuc compare like with what are now older PCs but I imagine we are probably into the core2and thus PS360 era, or soon will be) and combine the results to do more than the local processing, which gives fantastic latency, might afford. This especially if we are going to start dipping into higher end AI driven procedural generation and shared worlds.
     
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  20. the_randomizer

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    Data caps need to be abolished, games need to be available a-la-carte and not paid on top of service. Once these are met, then I'd consider this. But until caps are removed, and I don't have to pay for a game on top of a service for things I can't even tangibly keep, I don't see the appeal. Since Google likes killing things they start for no more than two years at most, I won't trust this.

    Our infrastructure is such garbage, our caps are highway robbery, 1080p 60 fps equates to roughly 15 GB per hour, that is insane and I refuse to pay for games I can't even download to local storage, games that servers will eventually be shut down for in the future.

    https://killedbygoogle.com/
     
    Last edited by the_randomizer, Nov 21, 2019
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