Hardware Good time to buy a PC?

[Rydian]

I recommend against overclocking and recommend going for efficient and cool parts for long life. In addition I say that the best time to buy a (new) computer is when you can get the best bang for your buck with well-developed parts (I.E. nothing like physx cards or those self-sustained networking things or untested hardware).

 

[Kirito-kun]

I recommend against overclocking and recommend going for efficient and cool parts for long life. In addition I say that the best time to buy a (new) computer is when you can get the best bang for your buck with well-developed parts (I.E. nothing like physx cards or those self-sustained networking things or untested hardware).

Overclocking is basically free performance. A cost-free method to make your GTX 660 Ti as fast as a GTX 670. There no point going for long life as by the time a part fails due to overclocking, it'll be obsolete anyways.

As long as you don't go too crazy with the voltage and watch your temperatures, there's little risk in overclocking a CPU or GPU.

 

[LegendAssassinF]

But are those benchmarks done while overclocked? It makes a huge difference and I don't see why an OCed FX 8350 and an OCed 660 Ti can't max out current games. I'm able to get 30+ FPS in Far Cry 3 maximum settings 1080p with an OCed Phenom II x4 960T and an OCed GTS 450. According to synthetic benchmarks, the FX 8350 and 660 Ti are more than twice as powerful as my current system, so 60 FPS should be very possible.

Most people who are new to PC gaming are likely not to OC right away though

 

[LegendAssassinF]

Doublt post

 

[Rydian]

Overclocking is basically free performance.

No, no it's not. More power usage (electricity bill), more heat that needs to be dissipated (fan wear and noise/usage), and the part is going to die quicker.

There no point going for long life as by the time a part fails due to overclocking, it'll be obsolete anyways.

My HD 5770 died within the warranty period due to heat with no overclocking, so no. And who exactly is going to pay for the replacement?

 

[trumpet-205]

There is no way such a setup would consume less than 250W under REAL stress. I mean REAL stress, like, using most components at their full capacity. The 7850 alone needs 130 W when operating at full speeds. Your cpu could use 77w irc.

I just swapped in a MSI HD7870 Hawk (previously was using Sapphire HD7850).

 

[Wizerzak]

Thanks a lot guys, this is really helpful. As for a few questions raised:

-Will be buying parts separately and assembling myself, not pre-built.
-No I will not OC until the warranty has run out on CPU/GPU.
-Large power consumption isn't too much of a problem. PC isn't always turned on and my current one is 750W.
-I would rather go for Intel + Nvidia as that's what I'm familiar with (not to mention PhysX )

Undecided whether to recycle parts from my old PC or not. As far as I know the Dell XPS 720 case is good but that'd mean I wouldn't be able to sell it on. I think it's only the HDD failing in my PC as I'm not getting any BSODs etc. just corrupted files, frequent automatic chkdsks and messages such as 'no boot device available - F1 to retry'. If that is the case I can sell it on without the HDD, the parts by themselves aren't worth much.

And yes I think I was very lucky with this PC. Bought it for £200 in Dec 2010. Q6600 and 8800GTX which must be the top of these phases you talk of, because they're still going now a lot better than I thought they would be.

As for CPUs, is there much of a difference between i5-xxxx and i5-xxxxk? And any advice on 3570k vs 4670(k)?

 

[Lanlan]

I've been seeing lots of 7950s for like $220 so I'd say pick up one of those with an 8350. Pop in another one down the line and you've got Titan-like power, sans CUDA obviously. And with AMD's 9000-series GPUs (or whatever they're calling em) coming soon, the price on the 7900 cards will only go down.

 

[Lanlan]

Most people who are new to PC gaming are likely not to OC right away though

I started overclocking the day I built my first PC.

 

[Lanlan]

Most people who are new to PC gaming are likely not to OC right away though

I started overclocking the day I built my first PC.

 

[LegendAssassinF]

I started overclocking the day I built my first PC.

But you are likely not most people who buy a PC.... Most people I know don't even know what they buy they just buy everything pre-built

 

[Wizerzak]

(Bump) Any advice on choosing a CPU?

 

[Originality]

For gaming, go mid-range. Either an IvyBridge i5 or Haswell i5. Get a motherboard to match (Z77 or Z87).

 

[Wizerzak]

Right, so the i5-3570 and 4670 are basically the same price (£10 difference, maybe more with mobo). Any advantage to picking the haswell over ivybridge?

Also from my understanding the 'k' just allows for better oc'ing? I probably won't be overclocking until it begins to become too slow (years time), and even then I probably won't have the time to.

 

[Originality]

K means unlocked multiplier for overclocking. You can save money by getting the normal version.

Haswell honestly hasn't added much this time. It's amazing for laptops/tablets, but not so much for desktops. However it does let you get 6 SATA III ports (Ivy got 2) and more USB3 ports. Also, it can get a performance boost of 7-15% from using faster (2400Mhz) RAM. That's about it.

EDIT: A quick mock build from Scan:

Core i5-4670 (£175)
Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD3H (£152)
8GB Corsair DDR3 Vengeance Black 2400Mhz (£78)
Asus GTX 660 Ti OC (£180)
1TB Seagate (£49)
Corsair Carbide 300R (£65)
Seasonic M12II-620 Modular (£72)
Total: £780.

This build does not have Windows (£40-120), a DVD drive (£10-20), or an aftermarket cooler (£15-40). It maximises the CPU/RAM/Motherboard combination and adds a good mid-ranged graphics card. The compromise comes from picking a cheap case and a (comparatively) small HDD. If you want to cut back, you can get lower speed RAM and a cheaper motherboard, or even a cheaper graphics card.

An alternative:

Core i5-3570 (£166)
Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H (£77)
8GB Corsair DDR3 Vengeance Pro Blue 1600Mhz (£60)
<rest as above>
Total: £680.

This gives room for a better case (£70-150), bigger HDD (£50-160), an added SSD (£70+) or a better graphics card (£200+).

Any questions, just ask.

 

[trumpet-205]

Right, so the i5-3570 and 4670 are basically the same price (£10 difference, maybe more with mobo). Any advantage to picking the haswell over ivybridge?

Also from my understanding the 'k' just allows for better oc'ing? I probably won't be overclocking until it begins to become too slow (years time), and even then I probably won't have the time to.

K indicates unlocked multiplier. Starting with Haswell you also cannot overclock 4 turbo multipliers (previously available with Sandy and Ivy) or using BCLK steppings with base SKU. In other words, K for overclocking and non-K for stock speed.

Go with Haswell Core i3/i5 or Xeon E3 v3 (Xeon is server counterpart of i7, but cheaper).

 

[Originality]

See the edit to my previous post. I gave a Haswell build and an Ivy Bridge build, for illustration, all from the Scan website.

 

[Kirito-kun]

Go with Haswell Core i3/i5 or Xeon E3 v3 (Xeon is server counterpart of i7, but cheaper).

Let me correct you. Xeon is NOT the server counterpart of i7, is MORE expensive, and is less optimized for gaming. If you just want good gaming performance, an Ivy Bridge Core i5 or a Piledriver FX is the best choice.

 

[trumpet-205]

Let me correct you. Xeon is NOT the server counterpart of i7, is MORE expensive, and is less optimized for gaming. If you just want good gaming performance, an Ivy Bridge Core i5 or a Piledriver FX is the best choice.

Lol what? All desktop chips, be AMD or Intel, are derived from server chips. This is called soft SKUs, a common practice to meet demand from different segment of the market while keeping number of designs to a minimum. There is absolutely no optimization on desktop chip for gaming as you claimed. In fact, desktop chips are "crippled" server chips.

Example 1: i7-4770 is Xeon E3-1245V3, just with ECC RAM support disabled. Xeon is $20 cheaper than i7.
Example 2: Radeon HD7870 and FirePro W7000 uses the same Pitcarin GPU chip. HD7870's GPGPU performance is 20% of the FirePro (intentionally by AMD, so that extra $500 price tag is justified by FirePro). HD7870 and W7000 share the same gaming performance.

 

[Rydian]

But that's not what the post said, the post said that Xeon is the sever i7.

 

[trumpet-205]

But that's not what the post said, the post said that Xeon is the sever i7.

Bottom line is that desktop chip and server chip all come from the same wafer. Chipmakers disable some features after fabrications in order to produce various SKUs aimed at various markets. I don't see how it is wrong to call Xeon a server counterpart of i7.

 

[PityOnU]

Let me correct you. Xeon is NOT the server counterpart of i7, is MORE expensive, and is less optimized for gaming.

Not sure how you would optimize a processor for gaming...

Also, what was this thread about again? Semantics?