Games that require serious non game skills to play?

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Games are often seen as tests of various skills, however most that everybody knows tend to test a fairly consistent set of them which most would be game players can learn and adapt to fairly quickly.
However they often shy away from asking people to use skills found in many but not necessarily anything like all. Here we want to know what you have either encountered in a game and came to a dead end with, or even sought out as a game as you have or wish to develop the skills in question.
Sometimes use of these skills are impractical to simulate in a game but other times they are eminently doable but few game developers would make such a thing, possibly for fear of limiting their audience.

Darlings of the first wave of PC CD games the 7th Guest and 11th Hour were often noted for wanting quite considerable maths, word and logic skills the likes of which have seldom been seen in games since then.
Should I wander around in a game and a game then asks me to play a 16 note sequence in something like real time from this piece of sheet music... that is going to involve me generating a key to do it and will take hours for something someone that can play and read sheet music might do first time in 15 seconds flat.
Rocksmith could see a mention in this sort of discussion but as its goal is clearly stated as being a music trainer it might not count.
Ever played a sniper game and not been taught what all those lines inside your scope mean or how to use them? Sometimes you might be taught about bullet drop/ranging, and wind or leading a moving target but rarely how to use mildots or other aim assisting aspects.
Fez was a fairly notable platformer for its rotational world mechanics but some of its secrets, easter eggs and bonuses were incredibly obtuse and saw people recreate QR codes, decipher very long form binary.
The hacking minigame/bonus game for enter the matrix was something of a recreation of DOS, as opposed to the usual simplified version of an old arcade classic or item consumer.

Are there any skills you would like to see explored more in games in the future? Fiction is replete with examples of clever detectives solving word puzzles on ancient tombs (something rather lacking in games despite such a scenario being far from unexplored in computer games), and likewise it is not short of fiction depicting computer games with clever puzzles for people to solve to unlock a secret job or government contract. ARGs and hackme contests are arguably this as well but might not quite be a game you are going to complete by yourself or with a few mates.

This is part of a discussion series in which we discuss and ponder things about games, be it individual games, aspects of the game industry, gaming culture, mechanics or gaming concepts. Previously we discussed What technologies in 20 years will seem unfairly held back.

 

FAST6191

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Hopefully when we're done with ray tracing we can continue to see progress being made in simulating physics (other than lighting/surface details). Shortly after HL2 there was a hope that we would see it being focused on, but now we're stuck with situations where for example the latest Gears of War game has worse physics than its predecessor... which came out years before, maybe even a console generation before, if my memory serves me right.
I mostly consider ray tracing a dead end or pointless frivolity and that alone probably says where physics sits in the hierarchy of cool tech to chase.
That said a lot of it is there (can run simulations, and if that beamng is going to simulate user made stuff I have some hope for something.

Hacknet is a good example, since you have to navigate in the game using shell commands. Sure there's some UI that can help moving from IP to IP, but it's far from being efficient. You'd also need some HTML background for some of the achievement, and if you want to do some shit and giggle with the game internal code, from within the game itself.

I'd like to see a game where you have to apply actual chemistry knowledge, especially organic chemistry.

Seems like I get to point to http://fold.it/ in a lot of these even if it is not strictly chemistry.

That said one day
https://research.msu.edu/designing-drugs-at-the-atomic-scale-with-computer-simulation/
Just going to need either consumer quantum, be it remote or local, or several more years of moore's law (or maybe 3d stuff).
 

TheCasualties

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Hacknet is a good example, since you have to navigate in the game using shell commands. Sure there's some UI that can help moving from IP to IP, but it's far from being efficient. You'd also need some HTML background for some of the achievement, and if you want to do some shit and giggle with the game internal code, from within the game itself.

I'd like to see a game where you have to apply actual chemistry knowledge, especially organic chemistry.

I'm not sure if actual chemistry knowledge helps, but have you checked out MOLEK-SYNTEZ? It's another Zachtronics game some I'm sure some people know of this already.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1168880/MOLEKSYNTEZ/
 

medoli900

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Seems like I get to point to http://fold.it/ in a lot of these even if it is not strictly chemistry.

That said one day
https://research.msu.edu/designing-drugs-at-the-atomic-scale-with-computer-simulation/
Just going to need either consumer quantum, be it remote or local, or several more years of moore's law (or maybe 3d stuff).
Fold.it is more biology than chemistry though, since it's protein folding. As for that computer simulation, it's actually what I'm working towards to the last seven years.
I'm not sure if actual chemistry knowledge helps, but have you checked out MOLEK-SYNTEZ? It's another Zachtronics game some I'm sure some people know of this already.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1168880/MOLEKSYNTEZ/
Oh hey, a new Zachtronics game. I'll definitely get it, since I already have all the other Zachtronics game and I'm a big fan of his. Knowing him though, and from a quick glance at the trailer, it probably will be more computer engineering, only with a chemistry skin, like SpaceChem or Opus Magnum.
 
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Kadji

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Japanese Music games (ddr/sdvx/iidx comes to mind).
Not only do you habe to struggle with japanese menus (and maybe learn a few Kanjis/phrases) but it also trains you physical. Be it full body movement (ddr) or hand focused games (iidx/sdvx). Best Hand-Eye coordination training imo.
 

DS1

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I forgot, I actually have a real example - Carnage Hearts requires a basic understanding of coding (you enter preset commands and set up loops to program a robot to fight in an arena using the Armored Core engine).

My friends that have a lot of programming experience and ingenuity are very skilled at the game, but it is not prohibitive to anyone willing to learn the skills necessary. Most importantly, it’s an actual game!
 
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Solidsnake451

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Mario Kart for Ds or Switch.
Need For Speed Most Wanted

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

C.O.P for ds

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Michael Jackson The Experience for PSP

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Sonic The Hedgehog for Genesis and New Super Mario Bros ds
 

FAST6191

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Mario Kart for Ds or Switch.
Need For Speed Most Wanted

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

C.O.P for ds

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Michael Jackson The Experience for PSP

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Sonic The Hedgehog for Genesis and New Super Mario Bros ds

I have played most of those and beat them with standard reactions and light memorisation that most games have as their core tests of skill. You are going to have to qualify that one.
 

Taleweaver

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I'm not sure if actual chemistry knowledge helps, but have you checked out MOLEK-SYNTEZ? It's another Zachtronics game some I'm sure some people know of this already.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1168880/MOLEKSYNTEZ/
Ah, rats...I was going to recommend the exact same game to @medoli900 I'm in the middle of playing it, and it immediately came to mind. :P
Oh hey, a new Zachtronics game. I'll definitely get it, since I already have all the other Zachtronics game and I'm a big fan of his. Knowing him though, and from a quick glance at the trailer, it probably will be more computer engineering, only with a chemistry skin, like SpaceChem or Opus Magnum.
Erm...I'll go with "you're partially correct" on that one. Yes, it's in the same vein as spacechem, and even a bit more like opus magnum, but the chemical components you mofidy can form binds on their own if you aren't careful. As an example: you remove a H part of a C molecule to bind it to another part, but because this C is next to another element you're altering, it just binds with THAT instead...so in later levels you've got to take more than simple (ahem) program instructions into account to end up with your goal instead of with some frankensteinian molecule that connects everything and the kitchen sink but in a way different fashion. :P

(for reference: here's the steam review I wrote on it:
The unintentional bad stuff: it's IMHO not as good as Opus Magnum. The graphics are inferior (though not as much as screenshots would make you believe), the story even more 'meh', I can't remember the name of this bloody game and the way to approach puzzles is less intuitive.
To elaborate on the last point: in opus magnum, nothing changes that you don't put into motion. But this game is different not only because your modification tools are on the sidebar rather than on the field, but also (and more so) because you're working with chemical molecules. To swap a C-molecule with an N, for example, you need to throw extra H's at the C until it's no longer bound to whatever it was bound to before you can remove it, and you'll need to do something similar to the N molecule. However: whatever that original C was connected to has become instable in the process, so unless you designed your work so that this whatever binds with that prepped N in the correct configuration, it will happily bind with some OTHER motherf***ing molecule in its vicinity, totally wrecking your carefully thought out machine. Grrrrr!!!!(1)
Ahem...what I'm saying: in opus magnum, I felt like mistakes were mine ("why did I place this girder here?" when my piece collided with my operator stuff). Here, it felt as if I'm punished for not completely grokking my chemical classes twenty years ago.
HOWEVER...I must really stress that O.M. is an absolute must play for any puzzle/program fanatic. And caveats aside, molek-syntez (I had to look up the name) might be in the same ball park but is still mostly different. So: an easy thumbs up nonetheless. :-)
(1) important note: if you're lost on this paragraph, you better learn about organic chemistry BEFORE picking up this game. I get the massive thumbs up for it, but you won't be one of 'em unless you really grasp this concept...hopefully better than me
)
 
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MercilessDeth

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It's funny that the Leisure Suit Larry "age check" quiz is mentioned. You could certainly be old enough to play that game now and probably need to reference some other source for the answers if your weren't an adult at the time it was released.

I think the (in)famous Silent Hill 3 Shakespeare puzzle might qualify, in terms of a game asking you to have outside knowledge. On the hardest difficulty, it requires knowing the some of the content of the works. Being able to read sheet music seems like something a lot of survival horror/puzzle based games expect the player to know as well.

Nothing particularly difficult, if you've been exposed to it before. Not terribly intuitive if you haven't
 
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FAST6191

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Being able to read sheet music seems like something a lot of survival horror/puzzle based games expect the player to know as well.

Oh? It is not my main thing in life but I would like to consider myself reasonably versed in such things and have no examples there, much less from anything vaguely popular.

Anything I might see on the music front is usually 3 or 4 notes and doable with basic pattern recognition (either copy what is played, or mirror an ascending/descending sequence). Maybe they do a few of them in a row. If they wanted to get super advanced they might have you play a few and then skip a note out in the ghosted out sequence they want you to play.
Nothing even close to play by ear, chords, timing, anything resembling creativity (it is within reason to have some kind of improv jazz, call and response musical brinksmanship type challenge in a game, or even have some real fun with music generation algorithms determine a list of acceptable response ranges), play/finish this popular motif/well known song, read this sheet and go from there, especially not on a blind piano/guitar/virtual whatever with no notes as to what key is what (or maybe just noting a given key).
 

Ryccardo

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Any game where the player consults a walkhrough - since reading skills seem to not be a given nowadays!

(Interestingly, the early Pokemon games had a warning on the box saying that you needed to be able to read to play them)
 

FAST6191

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(Interestingly, the early Pokemon games had a warning on the box saying that you needed to be able to read to play them)
Pokemon is an interesting case study here. Many over the years have noted the anime released along with the first (and super popular all over anywhere I went during that time) was also something of a game tutorial.

It would not be the first time a game had say the (back)story kicked to the manual (cannon fodder 2 http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/cf2/cf2.htm is my favourite example) or external (but bundled) video or something but pokemon being deliberately multimedia/external for a least a sizeable chunk of their audience is something I am not sure I have examples for.
 

Zense

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Pokemon is an interesting case study here. Many over the years have noted the anime released along with the first (and super popular all over anywhere I went during that time) was also something of a game tutorial.

It would not be the first time a game had say the (back)story kicked to the manual (cannon fodder 2 http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/cf2/cf2.htm is my favourite example) or external (but bundled) video or something but pokemon being deliberately multimedia/external for a least a sizeable chunk of their audience is something I am not sure I have examples for.
A sort of similar situation with regards to a game series connected to a tv series is .hack, but the audience was much smaller and more niche.

I also don't remember that many horror games with puzzles benefiting from any kind of music knowledge to solve, and I usually remember those type of puzzles and I've also played a good amount of horror games. It would be interesting to get examples from @PerfectB .
 

medoli900

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Pokemon is an interesting case study here. Many over the years have noted the anime released along with the first (and super popular all over anywhere I went during that time) was also something of a game tutorial.

It would not be the first time a game had say the (back)story kicked to the manual (cannon fodder 2 http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/cf2/cf2.htm is my favourite example) or external (but bundled) video or something but pokemon being deliberately multimedia/external for a least a sizeable chunk of their audience is something I am not sure I have examples for.
Yu-Gi-Oh Duel Link is another one, recent example. There's some story here and there, and very basic tutorial, but if you haven't watched the anime or previously played Yu-Gi-Oh, good luck.
 

john.jingle

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Ring Fit Adventure for Switch.
Granted you dont need "skills" per se but you do need to be relatively in shape to play this game for a decent stretch of time.
 

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