Game franchises that rose from the dead, and those that should have been put down again

Discussion in 'General Gaming Discussion' started by FAST6191, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. EmulateLife

    EmulateLife GBAtemp Psycho!

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    Prayer answered

     
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  2. zfreeman

    zfreeman GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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  3. FAST6191
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    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Doom coming back did quite well, Serious Sam similarly continues to do OK, in many ways I would consider Army of Two in these, and Saint's Row made something of a go of it too (especially sequels and DLC). Bulletstorm might also serve as something of a nice throwback, and I will not knock the earlier Dead Rising efforts too hard either in this.

    As far as Shenmue then while I am not expecting massive sales or anything I could see it going in the same way each year we get Oscar bait films that only a handful of people will see but those that enjoy the art form usually quite like as well. I would also say the first still has things aspiring to create a living open world too -- I can't remember how many years it has been since I played the first but I can still navigate the main town section, honestly couldn't do that for most of Skyrim at this point (a game I probably put longer into), and even Far Cry 3 which I was playing a couple of days back has similar issues for some of the towns but they at least don't appear to be going for living world there.


    Ahh the PS2 resurrections of 8 and 16 bit classics... how I don't miss that one.
    Anyway I never played the Altered Beast PS2 effort. For similar vintage titles back then I did once play the Shinobi game, and while its memory has certainly faded for a reason it served as something of a template for the likes of Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta and similar such titles.

    Now the question of Golden Axe coming back (granted for the 360) with Golden Axe beast rider... If you wanted either a new golden axe or a faithful step into 3d a la some of the prince of persia stuff (fittingly in a thread like this I am ignoring Prince of Persia 3d) then no. If you take it on its own merits though I can see why people defend it.
     
  4. Sakitoshi

    Sakitoshi GBAtemp Official Lolimaster

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    maybe for you.
    I get that samus representation seems poor, but we hardly had any hint of her personality before (even fusion showed only the necessary to move the plot), regardless of that other m is still a solid entry.

    Jazz Jackrabbit 3 should gwise fwom yar gwave and get a release. no hd remasters needed, the old games hold up pretty well (though I haven't played the gba game, but I will one of these days).
     
  5. pedro702

    pedro702 GBAtemp Guru

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    complaining about other M when we got Federation force after ...
     
  6. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    I really enjoyed Other M, it was a solid game. Yeah, Samus wasn't a battle hardened bounty hunter we all know and love, but it was explained fairly well in the game. Besides, she always had a certain fondness for the Baby Metroid, even in the older entries, so much of the critique seemed unjustified to me. She did rely a lot on Adam's instructions, but then again, she was following orders during the mission, so it made sense to me in the context. It was a good blend of 2D and 3D gameplay, I'd be happy to see a sequel at some point.
     
  7. Ev1l0rd

    Ev1l0rd (⌐◥▶◀◤) Developer - noirscape

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    I see this argument propped up every once in a while. That since Samus has no personality, so the character we get is basically gonna be her character.

    And... I kinda disagree with that assessment. It's true that Samus's speaking lines in the games aren't much, but they infer a character. Compare her to Link, the other Nintendo Silent Protagonist. Most people would agree that, even if Link is the blank slate, he has some amounts of character. It's for example generally agreed upon that Link doesn't like Ganon very much, cares about the people of Hyrule and wants to save Zelda. Most people wouldn't agree if someone then suddenly told them that in reality, Link is beating up Ganon because he has deep-seated daddy issues he hasn't worked out or something.

    That is what Other M did to Samus' character. Samus' character was sparse, but we had some general concepts of who she was and what she was like. She's a hero who saves the day, cares about individuals and isn't afraid of telling a shitty system to go and fuck itself and do the right thing anyways. Other M then proceeds to set out to completely tear down that character. Hell, they even reference that particular character which I just described in Other M. It's past Samus for that story. Present-Day Other M Samus however seems to be a shivering wreck who has deep-seated daddy issues, follows instructions like a fucking puppet and the game even removes any sense of catharsis that might alleviate this. There is zero character development. We aren't shown seeing her grow past the character hang-ups (which would've made them tolerable if a bit weird for Samus), we're actively denied four separate moments in which Samus could have been a badass hero who saves the day:
    • Ridley enters the plot and leaves it the moment he's not needed. The de facto Metroid villain is instead delegated to a honestly offensive boss fight by all accounts, both for what it does to Samus' character, what it does to the established canon of Metroid and what it speaks of for sexism in the video game industry in general (yes I went there).
    • Sector Zero, the sector with supposedly unfreezable Metroids in it, which would've served as a great final dungeon, we are barred from entering. Why? Because they needed Adam "Mary Sue" Malkovich to have a shining moment, since he was so endearing to the audience by shooting Samus in the back with his stun gun of maximum plot power.
    • The Metroid Queen, the final boss, isn't a story relevant boss. It's a lame attempt at another motherhood reference. It also ties in with why Ridley is so awful, since the Queen is implied to have killed Ridley. To a similar account, the Deleter is a similarly crappy villain. He literally is added to add weak tension and the game doesn't even acknowledge he existed the moment he stops being relevant to the story.
    • MB, who is the main villain, you don't even get to fight. You go into visor mode and you aim at her. Then a bunch of military guys shoot her for you.
    And that's without going into the numerous ways it cherry-picks previously established bits of Metroids story and explicitly contradicts the Prime series.

    Gameplay is similarly just... bad. It's not good, the Primes, and although hindsight makes this cheating, Samus Returns prove how you can do a 2D/3D Metroid game with 3D models. The controls are good for what they had to work with, but honestly the fact that they insisted on a Wiimote only control scheme really hampered the game and the forced aiming mechanic for investigation and missiles is just... no. This should've been a nunchuck game.

    And let's say I wanted to ignore the story and focus on the game. Except I literally fucking cannot. People deride Fusion for being overly linear, but Other M cranks it up to a fucking new degree. Fusion had it's linear segments sure, but there was a sense of exploration, unforeseen things would happen that the game wouldn't tell you about which would change the way you approached obstacles. Other M is completely linear, any side paths available at any time are blocked off by Adam "Mary Sue" Malkovich. There's no sense of secrecy to exploring the BOTTLE ship (another shitty motherhood symbolism), no sense you're ever breaking the mold. There's exactly one shortcut and iirc you're forced to take it, so there's no real "metroidvania" for the game.

    Fusion handled it really well on the other hand. Yes, the game was restrictive whilst you were working on an objective, but otherwise, you have complete freedom of movement within the sector you're in, and near the end of the game it actively makes a point of you having pretty much worked free from the heavyhanded guidance of your AI companion by showing a ton of interconnectivity between it's sectors.

    And I got this far on gameplay without even talking about the sheer incompetency that they did with the Varia and Gravity suit in Other M. They're both equally egregious, but for different reasons. The Varia suit is literally the reason you can't avoid Other Ms story, the fact you can't use it is dysfunctional from a gameplay perspective (it's a purely defensive mechanic, there is no reason she shouldn't have it on to begin with) and if you turn to the story you get... the story. Which calls in the infamous death run section, which to this date is pretty much the only instance where you're forced to take environmental damage that doesn't easily heal off. Prime 2 had it's dark world sections, but the safe zones would automatically heal you and it was a gameplay mechanic and it was justified due to the corrosive air. In Other M, Samus goes through a superheated environment that given the point in the story this game takes place, she has dealt with several times before. She reaches a certain mark in the game (I think it was at the beginning of a boss), and suddenly Adam "Mary Sue" Malkovich approves her using the Varia Suit. The game forces you to pay attention to the story for this to make sense.

    There's several possible readings of that scene, and none of them paint Samus or Adam in a particularly positive light. Samus is delegated to either daddy issues or is abused. Adam is either negliglent or abusive.

    The Gravity suit is just egregious considering it's particular incarnation in this game. Whilst the purple/yellow/red color scheme is... always one of the more "interesting" examples of an outfit color scheme, in this game it is literally a pink glow. Why? Because Sakamoto, the director for every single Nintendo game that wasn't a Prime (those were directed by Miyamoto) since Gunpei Yokoi died (the original Metroid creator), found it a weird color scheme and asked it to just be a glow.

    Other M fails on every single level. It does an active disservice to the Metroid canon and not even the gameplay can save it's ass since it's forcibly intertwined with the story, which is a whole bunch of crap I can unpack much further if desired.

    I refuse to see Other M as a Metroid game.

    Federation Force is so bland, I forgot it existed, and honestly it was overshadowed by AM2R for me. Like, FedForce isn't good, I won't say it is. But it's not offensively bad beyond just being exemplary of how little the big N cares for Metroid as a franchise, which is only an aspect of the much bigger issues I have with Other M.

    Plus we got Samus Returns the year after (and Prime 4 announcement) which alleviated pretty much any negative resentment I held about Federation Force. We didn't have any alleviation for Other M.
     
  8. Sakitoshi

    Sakitoshi GBAtemp Official Lolimaster

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    @Ev1l0rd Ain't reading that wall of text. but you are wrong from the beginning .
    Link does show his personality because he is expressive, he shows his face all the time and you can tell by his face alone what is he thinking.
    Samus on the other hand has never shown her face outside of a couple seconds at the end of the games of the prime series, and her expression in the prime 1 ending at least, is that of a person that is sad because of all the destruction she had to leave behind or relieved that everything is over which fits her personality in other m.
     
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  9. Ev1l0rd

    Ev1l0rd (⌐◥▶◀◤) Developer - noirscape

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    Samus has the opening cutscene of Super, the monologues of Fusion and short bits of zero mission (I'll grant that ZM isn't much tho), the logs in Primes and an entire manga that characterizes her (I glossed over that last one, but it's actually pretty good and a lot of the things you see Other M flub, the manga handles really well). All of those characterizations actively run counter to Other Ms portrayal of Samus.

    There's different ways to express a character. Link does it through his facial expressions, Samus we learn about due to inferring her character from how others see her and the short bits that tell us the backstory of how she got on alien planets.
     
  10. HylianBran

    HylianBran Member

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    One of my favorite (or my favorite) franchise is Klonoa, and it should be able to pass for this thread as it is likely coming back. I say this because earlier this year Bandai Namco registered the trademark Klonoa Encore, bearing a similar name to Katamari Damacy Encore, which was a enhanced port of Katamari Damacy.
     
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  11. Sakitoshi

    Sakitoshi GBAtemp Official Lolimaster

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    I would argue that remakes don't exactly bringing back a game/series, if anything is like putting them on life support.
    sequels is what we really need.
     
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  12. alexander1970

    alexander1970 GBAtemp allows me to be here

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    It always amazes me how Resident Evil goes down the drain, on and on, and it does not get better again .....:sad:
    F1 Series...where are the REAL Innovations......:unsure:
    Sonic,the Hedgehog.....:cry:
    (my first Console and Video Game)
    Star Trek......why did not they stay with the Adventures ?
    Doom....:rolleyes:
    Wolfenstein....What did the games exactly have to do with (Return to) Castle Wolfenstein.....:(
    Far Cry.....funny Shooter Series,but from the Spirit from the First Game is not many left....
    Tomb Raider.....also a nice Game Series after Part III,unfortunately not more.:sad:
     
  13. FAST6191
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    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Ignoring 6 and the various unnumbered spinoffs (save for Code Veronica) does Resident Evil get worse and worse? I am not entirely sure why 7 got called that (save perhaps oh look we have a horror game, let us crowbar it into the series, but it was hardly bad either, and the recent effort at remaking 2 will probably be the high water mark for such endeavours for some time to come.
     
  14. pedro702

    pedro702 GBAtemp Guru

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    a remaster doesnt but a remake it does, since its totaly new engine and graphics and whatnot, but yeah an hd remaster doesnt bring anything to a series a remake does indeed.
     
  15. Sakitoshi

    Sakitoshi GBAtemp Official Lolimaster

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    remake, remaster, same thing.
    putting a new coat of paint doesn't advance the plot or bring anything new to the table. also Klonoa already had a remake on wii that went nowhere.
     
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  16. pedro702

    pedro702 GBAtemp Guru

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    what look at resident evil original and remake... its night and day and they even had alot of new parts of story and bosses and everything.

    a remaster is just the same exact game with same assets but hd textures, higher definition and some better framerate(sometimes), a remake its basically a new game based on the original.

    you got amazing remakes like
    RE
    Pokemon heartgold,soulsilver
    shadow of the colossus(yes it first got remastered and then remade lol)
    RE2
    metroid samus returns
    links awakening
    crash trilogy
    spyro trilogy

    remakes are totally different beasts, some of them change even game-play(RE2) and add their own things, they aren't just copy past jobs, that's why there are very few remakes compared to remasters don't put them both on the same cup.
     
  17. Silent_Gunner

    Silent_Gunner Mad Dog of Rambling and Insanity

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    Let's hope that this Ichiban nerd's love for Dragon Quest doesn't fuck us over, Okazaki-chan!

    Remake = brand new game with new and updated assets, gameplay, areas to explore, etc.. Think Metroid Zero Mission, AM2R, Resident Evil 2 Remake, Crash N-Sane Trilogy, Super Mario Bros. All-Stars, etc..

    Remaster = Take a previous generation game and code it for a new CPU architecture/OS to make it run better than the initial system it was released on. Only got devs any money this past generation because both systems have inconsistent BC unlike with the PS2 with the PS1 and the OG FAT PS3s with both respective systems before it.

    To actually get on topic, how about Fire Emblem? This was a game that, even when they started localizing the games with FE7, didn't really see success until Awakening, which ironically was going to be the series' swan song. Since that game's commercial resurgence, they've been able to keep making more and more games and even a Warriors spinoff for Switch!
     
  18. raxadian

    raxadian GBAtemp Maniac

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    Well, Twinsanity was buggy and incomplete but fun.

    And Spyro had one or two good games after the first three but they ruined it.
     
  19. YukidaruPunch

    YukidaruPunch GBAtemp Regular

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    Wonder Boy is one of my all-time favorite series and has seen a recent revival as of late. The subseries Monster World inside of Wonder Boy are, in essence, "Metroidvanias". Most of them are excellent games, and almost everyone who played The Dragon's Trap agrees it to be one of the best games on the Master System.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Everything is just so vibrant and colorful!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    After over 20 years without a single new game, there have been two recent revivals: both The Dragon's Trap remaster by Lizardcube (who's now making Streets of Rage 4) and Monster Boy by Game Atelier. While the first is a faithful remaster which is quite literally (and impressively) running of the original ROM, the second is an original game which serves as a spirital sequel that has many nods to the original series and also had some of the original developers. I'm more fond of Lizardcube's work, but both are great and it was immense to see two WB-related properties being developed at the same time after two decades of naught but rereleases (and an official Monster World IV localisation, that's true.)

    Excellent games, excellent series, all of them.
     
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  20. Souperman9

    Souperman9 Advanced Member

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    Contra. The new one looks awful though.
     
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