Freedom of Speech controversy

Discussion in 'General Off-Topic Chat' started by WiiUBricker, Jan 31, 2011.

Jan 31, 2011
  1. WiiUBricker
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    Member WiiUBricker Insert Custom Title

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    First of, do not flame or I will ban you with my own unsigned code I developed for a site exploit I found! [​IMG]

    So I want to get something off my chest. At this point of time, we all are aware of Sonys recent actions against hackers such as GeoHot or the failoverflow team. For those of you that dont know, Sony doesnt want people to run unlicenced code on their console and therefore the company took actions against hackers. For example, GeoHot is subject to a TRO, which means his computer and hacking devices are confiscated for further investigation and he is not allowed to post anything related to PS3 hacking/jailbreaking.

    Of course many of you guys hate Sony for that. Some of you even claim Sony robs hackers their freedom of speech.

    But what about hackers who dont want users talk about unappreciated code at their sites such as Wiibrew? It's not allowed to post anything backup loader or cIOS releated on Wiibrew, because the site admins (parts of Team Twiizers aka Team failoverflow) dont support piracy. Dont these site admins behave exactly like Sony? Just think about it

    Wiibrew staff dont support piracy -----> they delete anything related to backup loading and threaten people with bans ----> no freedom of speech.
    Sony doesnt support homebrew -----> they take legal actions against hackers ----> no freedom of speech

    So why is everyone so upset about Sony and not about these hackers? Because these hackers provide excellent software like the homebrew channel and bootmii? So what, Sony provides excellent games for their customers and people still hate them? If hackers pisses of a company it's ok, but if a company pisses of hackers, it's not ok? Do you guys see the controversy?

    Just think about it and comment below.
     
  2. ShadowSoldier

    Member ShadowSoldier GBAtemp Guru

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    This is stupid.

    There's a difference between Homebrew, and Sony Apps.

    For example, would Sony put an app on their console that allows the emulation of SNES, Genesis, Neo Geo or anything? No. Sony takes away OtherOS and instead gives the world Home and Move, and they take away backwards compatibility? Of which Other OS and BC was a big selling point for the PS3 when it released.

    There's also a big difference between allowing piracy on your site so Nintendo doesn't take legal action against you. Just like GBAtemp doesn't allow people to give out links to anything that condones piracy. You saying GBAtemp takes away Freedom of Speech too?

    You looked too hard into the whole thing to be honest with you.
     
  3. Costello

    Administrator Costello Headmaster

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    I think paying so much for a console gives you the right to do what you want with it.
    For example hacking it wide open and making it do what you want.
    But it doesn't give you the right to play games without paying for them, thats a different story.

    And the reason GBAtemp prevents people from posting illegal things is not to annoy people but it's to protect ourselves from legal issues.
     
  4. ST75

    Newcomer ST75 Member

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    I think the big difference here is the fact that wiibrew is a site that twiizers/failoverflow own the rights to. They pay for that webspace so they have the right to decide what goes on that site. Where as you purchase the PS3 from sony...therefor you own that PS3 (at least as of now...this may change after this lawsuit finishes) so you should have the right to do what you want with it. It all depends on "ownership".
     
  5. WiiUBricker
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    Hacking a device and sharing information how to hack the device are two completly different stories.

    Sony doesnt want people to share information how to hack/jailbreak their console. Wiibrew staff dont want people to share informationen related to backup loaders (piracy is another story). How can the first thing be bad and the second thing be understandable, especially since Wiibrew is supposed to be a wiki, a place of total freedom of speech?

    Or lets say a hacker reverse engineeres the homebrew channel and build a far better HBC with features such as game loading straight vom HBC or whatever feature the original HBC currently lack. Wouldnt you think, that this would piss of Team Twiizers?

    Or what about if a hacker reverse engineeres Riivolution (no, I'm not asking for source) and build his own Riivolution with multiple IOS support and support for USB loading? I think most people will then stick with the USB loading version. Without a doubt that would piss of the coders of riivolution.
     
  6. Jamstruth

    Member Jamstruth Secondary Feline Anthropomorph

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    Here's the difference.
    Piracy is illegal. 100% against the law.
    Homebrew is in the grey area. Its leaning towards being more legal but obviously Sony etc. don't want it because it means people are running their software on their console without paying licensing rights for it losing them money. Sony's goals are related to money. Wiibrew's goals are freedom of speech without breaking any laws.
    Piracy=/=freedom of speech
     
  7. WiiUBricker
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    I already said piracy is another story. USB loaders and cIOS are homebrew too and completly legal, but sharing informations about them at wiibrew is prohibited.
     
  8. Sterling

    Member Sterling GBAtemp's Silver Hero

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    What is the sole purpose of loaders, and cIOSs? To provide means of playing copied games. Despite there being no proprietary code or copyrighted emblems and such, they are used soley to further illegal means. In the homebrew side of this, they are on the brink of the grey area. Their sole purpose is to pirate, but they are still homebrew.
     
  9. WiiUBricker
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    That's a tough claim. What about emulators? There is no way a normal person can dump SNES or N64 ROMs, so they are massive warez launchers but allowed at wiibrew. That's ridiculous. And it's not like that only usb loaders are prohibited at wiibrew, it's everything related to patching IOS. You can patch IOS that cant be used for playing backups too, you know.

    Then again, hacking a device and especially distributing signing keys of a console will without a single doubt lead to piracy.
     
  10. Sterling

    Member Sterling GBAtemp's Silver Hero

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    I have no problem with old game emulators. I also know that patching IOSs can be used for homebrew, but do they contain any Nintendo code after being patched?? If so, we have a problem. Its kinda like how NDS Flashcards currently pass the AP on the DSi, they use a bit of an existing game header to fool the system. Proprietary code.

    If we weren't allowed to emulate old games, people couldn't enjoy them. Current and previous[?] gen where the money still can come from new games is absolutely inexcusable for emulator fodder. If you couldn't emulate old games, they might disappear off the map entirely.
     
  11. WiiUBricker
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    Huh? Why is that a problem?
     
  12. Rydian

    Member Rydian Resident Furvertâ„¢

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    A patched IOS would be considered a derivative work, the copyright of the original would still apply.

    Freedom of speech has historically been for political speech (usually dissident against government and such). Copyrights and Patents gives protection over certain speech, rendering it non-free. The article in question prevents the government from specifically making a law outlawing specific types of speech and ideas.

    It's complex, but I can pretty much tell you that I have never seen anybody crying "freedom of speech" when it actually did apply...
     
  13. WiiUBricker
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    GeoHot did:

    As of 1/27/2011, I don't have free speech

    Freedom of speech means also sharing technical information, but that's prohibited at Wiibrew (that's a freakin WIKI) if it has anything to do with apply IOS patches or backup loaders (except emulators, that ironically happen to be even bigger warez launchers than USB loaders). You can also call that censorship.
     
  14. Rydian

    Member Rydian Resident Furvertâ„¢

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    The ability to say anything directly clashes with the idea of copyright.

    Good luck making that clash. People have been pushing for copyright reform in the US for years.
     
  15. Sterling

    Member Sterling GBAtemp's Silver Hero

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    Is it also based in the US? Could be that they are just covering their asses
     
  16. monkat

    Banned monkat I'd like to see you TRY to ban me. (Should I try?.

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    This thread just reeks of fail...
     
  17. DJPlace

    Member DJPlace P!ssed OFF Pyscho of GBA!!

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    the reason why i pirate the nintendo system's is because not only to save money but they are not good at defending from hackers and i don't think nintendo gives a shit about stoping hacking.

    sony on the other hand is very good at defending there sony system's and well i can't say much about that... even through they fucked up one of there expoits. i just think sony's in it for the money.
     
  18. Sterling

    Member Sterling GBAtemp's Silver Hero

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    No, the PSP has failed security as well. When you fuck up something so bad that general users can have FULL ACCESS to your home console, then there is no excuse for that. Also, Nintendo acted on the scene too late to actually prevent rampant piracy, but they make the public work for their homebrew. Sony is just throwing shit tons of cash around to intimidate. For the most part it isn't working.
     
  19. WiiUBricker
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    Stay on topic guys. This is not about piracy.
     
  20. Sterling

    Member Sterling GBAtemp's Silver Hero

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    No its not, but parts of the reason Loaders and cIOSs are banned are due to piracy. Which is what you're wondering no?
     

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