Free rom loader means the death of the 3ds scene

Discussion in '3DS - Flashcards & Custom Firmwares' started by json, May 27, 2014.

  1. json
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    json MUSCLEMAN

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    As I was saying in another thread where this post was "off-topic", I hope a free rom loader does not appear any time soon because it would mean the death of the future 3ds (piracy) scene. Gateway will pack their bags and leave because they don't see any sales and this means any future advancements they had to offer are also gone.

    Currently Gateway is the only team progressing the PRO-PIRACY aspect of the 3ds scene. All we have seen from homebrewers are that they are ANTI-PIRACY (and rightfully so).

    However, Gateway is a business. And in business the first rule is to make profit. If Gateway can't make a profit, then they will stop and leave. Simple as that.

    So let's hypothetically say a free rom loader appears today. Gateway's sales will drop to ZERO because who would want to pay for something when there's the same alternative but for free? So now since Gateway doesn't see a profit anymore in 3ds they will pack their bags and leave the 3ds scene. That's just the rule of business. Not hard to understand this right?

    And with that, any future solutions Gateway would provide are gone. Including the solution to the new 7.x crypto if they had solved it (and it seems they have). Gateway would not have any further incentive to progress the 3ds piracy scene. Why would they?

    Even worse, even if they did provide a solution for the 7.x crypto, it would get copied in a heartbeat by either cloners or the free solution. So this would result again in ZERO sales. From all angles, it makes zero business sense for Gateway to continue.

    This is the current situation going on. Nintendo dropped new keys in 7.x and nobody can crack them or bypass them ... Except for Gateway since they have the experience, equipment and can basically just throw enough money at it until it works.

    So, back to our free rom loader. The euphoria of the free rom loader will only be for a short period because it will only support roms up to 7.x. And as time passes we won't see support for newer roms.. Because who can step up to the game and realise the same level as progress as Gateway? I don't see homebrewers attacking this issue as they are AGAINST piracy.

    Because of the constant cat and mouse game with Nintendo we are screwed if Gateway packs their bags and leaves. When Nintendo drops a new update that uses new crypto keys that nobody can crack/bypass then we need someone like Gateway to solve this problem.
     
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  2. Qtis

    Qtis Grey Knight Inquisitor

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    Gateway didn't invent the exploit itself, which by all means counters some of your points. Sure many homebrew developers are leaning against supporting piracy, but it's not like they aren't able to open the consoles. I can well understand smea's point of view for not releasing his exploit for the sake of keeping it available for as long as possible. If the vuln exists in 7.X (as it does) and it can be launched via another method (this was the problem IIRC?), it's better to get the exploit working on the latest instead of letting it be patched up like the 4.x exploit. As Normmatt mentioned before, there are methods of getting needed access to the encryption/decryption sections without having a costly solution.

    As for Gateway being the only developer giving out, quite the opposite. The stuff they do is closed source and not shared with anyone else. Smea, Normmatt and co. have given loads to the scene via sites like 3Dbrew with documented info. Info also available to Gateway for their use, but also available to all other potential homebrewer/hacker/modders..
     
  3. json
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    json MUSCLEMAN

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    I can't say whether or not Gateway did create the exploit themselves or not. I was not there when it was created, and neither were you. The only thing known at that time was a piece of text on 3dbrew saying "I crashed mset by accident with a corrupted ds profile". If that's an exploit to you then you need to read up on the matter. Beyond that I will refrain from discussing that matter further.

    Smea and Normatt got only so far due to the work of Gateway. Smea only got code running because of Gateway's exploit. And regardless, they are ANTI-PIRACY so they won't release anything that could be used for piracy. So yea thanks for confirming my first post.
     
  4. majinspyda

    majinspyda Member

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    I'm a longtime lurker of the 3ds scene and feel we are now at a crossroads in terms of developing a true homebrew scene

    json
    I wholeheartedly agree with you that if gateway leaves we wont have any solution to the 7.x Crypto. I don't believe the 3ds piracy scene would die as some talented people here on the forums were reverse engineering the launcher.dat to run homebrew as is. Its a matter of time until they figure out how to redirect Rom loading from the SD.

    It sounds crazy but for now I would suggest to the community at large to continue supporting Gateway until the necessary things we need for a piracy scene are accomplished (crypto cracked for 7.X and above firmwares, 7.x exploit support, ram editing, custom firmware etc.)

    For the record I am neither for nor against piracy. I am a strong supporter of a persons right to choose whatever floats their boat.
     
  5. json
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    json MUSCLEMAN

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    Again, the key point is that Gateway provided the Launcher. Gateway gateway gateway.. Always Gateway. They provide you with the solutions, noone else seems to be doing this.
     
  6. masterzero

    masterzero GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    ye don't make a free loader , let us just pay abusive prices for flashcard :)

    Have you thought maybe opening the door of free loader and letting GW get out with it would open development to other people who are NOT GW team?
     
  7. blinkzane

    blinkzane Panic at your moms house

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    this was pointless for me to read. somebody tell me why these articles seem interesting on the title until you open it to something already discussed a thousand times before?
     
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  8. json
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    json MUSCLEMAN

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    Are you saying someone who works should not get paid? Everyone should make everything for free?
    Bakers should make bread for free? Sony should make TV's for free?

    I don't have a problem with paying a one-off fee to Gateway and have fantastic support for 3ds backups.

    And who would be this "NOT GW team"? Nobody has stepped up so far.. and nobody will
     
  9. Technicmaster0

    Technicmaster0 GBAtemp Psycho!

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    And that's the problem with GW which enables everyone to play free 3DS ROMs from the net and the original devs get nothing.
     
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  10. Abcdfv

    Abcdfv What comes around goes around.

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    If 80$ is abusive for being able to play almost every 3ds game out, than what do you call $40 for just one game? Gateway has put a lot of time and work into their software, which is what you're really paying for, not just the hardware.
     
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  11. Veho

    Veho The man who cried "Ni".

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    The same way the homebrew channel and ISO loaders killed the Wii piracy scene.
     
  12. majinspyda

    majinspyda Member

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    You are indeed correct friend.

    The heart of the matter is that there is no incentive for independent developers to come out with solutions as they realistically can't capitalize monetarily at this point in the game.

    Plus the flame wars that happen once you release the project you worked on resulting in a Rom loader. If a couple of the people banded together and worked toward a common established goal I would be more than happy to support with $$$
     
  13. json
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    json MUSCLEMAN

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    As much as I would like to see it, the security of the 3DS looks so highly advanced that not even the best and brightest pro-free-pirates are up to the task.

    You need real resources, real effort, real equipment to get this far in the game and crack the crypto. That's not something just some random guy can offer (for free). That's what I try to explain in my first post.
     
  14. misterb98

    misterb98 Moral Gateway User. Wat.

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    If a Rom loader with the equivilent functions of 1.0, or even 1.2 is released, it might cause some problems, but under no circumstances would it kill GW.

    GW would still have the multirom, the online, the SDK 5.0+ games, the emuNAND, the system transfer compatibility, etc. Even just these features as an upgrade would still make people purchase thier product. It would be a "premium hack".

    Its not until we get a ROM loader with the equivalent of OMEGA that we will start to see issues. Personally, I don't see ANYONE managing to obfuscate OMEGA, modify it to use the SD card instead, and disable the bricking code.

    TL;DR a Rom loader with only 1 game per SD, limited compatibility, no online, no emuNAND, and no FW 5.0+ features would not damage GW almost at all. It would only finish off the already dead clones (minus MT)


    Also, doesn't saving natively use the cartridge's onboard chipset? That would also have to be changed, and GW doesn't really do that, as they have that in their cartridge.
     
  15. Ace Overclocked

    Ace Overclocked My CPU's hot but my core runs cold.

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    Because the psp piracy scene died when there was no more profit and pandora batteries were no more necessary
     
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  16. Some1CP

    Some1CP GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Homebrew and free loaders without the scam of having to buy expensive hardware from scammers for piracy is somehow bad now.

    I've just seen everything.

    Please don't tell me you also support the Wii U piracy monopoly from the guys at OZModChips who are planning to do some sort of kickstarter for the Wii U modchip that doesn't even need hardware to do what it needs to do.
     
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  17. gamesquest1

    gamesquest1 Nabnut

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    It boils down to, if the people who think a free Rom loader would suddenly make super intelligent people turn up they are sorely mistaken, a botch job hack of gateway would be just that, if there was truly a dev worthy of taking over the reigns they would of stepped up already.........will less experienced devs be able to fix bits and pieces......sure, but nit as much as a whole development team who are making money for their efforts, look at the last fundraiser by the community to get the 3ds decapped.......yeah such a nice solid and respectable bunch of people........just in it for the money as much as gateway except they ran with the money and gave nothing in return
     
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  18. misterb98

    misterb98 Moral Gateway User. Wat.

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    As far as I can tell, json is concerned about GW leaving if one comes out. Therefore, in order to no kill the scene, GW would need to still have enough profit to continue working.

    A fully-fledged free ROM loader with all the features of OMEGA with no cost would severely damage GW and might cause them to leave. Fortunately, nobody is even NEAR that close to having such a loader ready. The most we can hope for in the coming months is the equivalent of GW 1.0 or 1.2, which is basically 3DS Link.


    Edit: I feel like I should edit this post just to say how awesome gamesquest1 is. He shows up in pretty much every thread and always posts helpful information. :)
     
  19. Oxybelis

    Oxybelis GBAtemp Fan

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    I think making a gateway card instead of patching kernel to load eshop games without checking ownership was harder. Loader already exist in kernel.
    It would function like WADs on Wii.
     
  20. misterb98

    misterb98 Moral Gateway User. Wat.

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    This, of course, would probably require doing more work to allow for the installation of channels and require dumping eShop games. *I THINK*