Following the controversy of Shenmue III becoming an Epic exclusive, backers can now get refunds

Discussion in 'GBAtemp & Scene News' started by Chary, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. Ericthegreat

    Ericthegreat Not New Member

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    Vana'diel
    Well, your pills are....
     
  2. 1MiinMofo

    1MiinMofo Member

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    Those of you who don't understand why people wanted refunds perplex me. Would anyone who actually backed this game want a refund at this point if the Epic thing wasn't a very serious issue for them?

    The answer to that rhetorical question is "no." That so many wanted a refund tells you that Shenmue's developers had no realistic choice but to offer what they did, including a refund. It sets a bad precedence for backed games, but then so does the bait and switch to Epic. I think we all know what really happened here. The Shenmue devs wrote their plea in good faith believing it would only ever be a Steam game on PC. Then Epic approached them with bags of $100 bills. Then the Shenmue devs decided to sign on with Epic hoping they could get away with it and insisting there would be no refunds. That was never going to work. Epic probably gave them a loan against future earnings to allow the devs to issue refunds right now. And here we are.

    I didn't back the game. But I'd be very pissed off if I did only to have them try to hang Epic's malware on me long AFTER they had my money. It's bad enough having that worthless Steam executable stealing CPU cycles from me all day long. I don't need more Mandatory Malware™.
     
    Last edited by 1MiinMofo, Jul 3, 2019
  3. Edgarska

    Edgarska Conjurer of cheap tricks

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    The original point was that it's illegal to change your product after you pay for it without notice. That pharmacy example doesn't make any sense.
     
  4. Ericthegreat

    Ericthegreat Not New Member

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    Vana'diel
    Well, how did they change it? They made you go to a different store, right?
     
  5. spectral

    spectral GBAtemp Fan

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    They changed what they gave you. They advertised a steam key, people paid for a steam key. An epic store key while similar, is not the exact thing paid for. They're delivering a different product. In this case your product is the key not the game itself. With justification or not people really don't like the Epic store and don't want to use it. Why should they be forced too in order to use a product that was supposed to work without it?
     
    Last edited by spectral, Jul 3, 2019
  6. Edgarska

    Edgarska Conjurer of cheap tricks

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    Yes, and again, a pharmacy doesn't change your prescription, your doctor does.
     
    Last edited by Edgarska, Jul 3, 2019
  7. spectral

    spectral GBAtemp Fan

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    I suppose a still flawed but closer analogy with the pharmacy would be turning up with a script for morphine and them giving you codeine and just saying, they're both comparable pain killers so it doesn't matter.
     
  8. Edgarska

    Edgarska Conjurer of cheap tricks

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    Exactly.

    The fact that they changed which store redeems the code is irrelevant, the fact is a customer paid for something with the terms clearly laid out, and they were changed after the fact.
    Whether you like steam more than epic store, or barely tolerate steam like I do, the fact is they changed the deal after the payment was made, which voids the original agreement.

    It baffles me that people will argue against their own rights as consumer in order to defend a company's practices.
     
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  9. cots

    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    I don't care for Shenmue and haven't tried Epic's store front yet. Is it lightweight like GOG's launcher or bloated an intrusive like Origin? I'm not one to care much about what launcher I use or what console I have to buy. If it's a game I want to play then that's all I really care about.
     
  10. Edgarska

    Edgarska Conjurer of cheap tricks

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    Just to add a detail I had overlooked, this is from their official statement:

    That's just fucked up.
     
  11. spectral

    spectral GBAtemp Fan

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    Thats not unusual for any goods with a bespoke order. Generally the rules for it are different. I'm assuming it means that they paid to have their name in the game ortheir art work in the game,etc. That work is already done and paid for and is in the game. On that score they fulfilled their end. Those are seperate to your purchase of the game itself. O rif its for physical rewards that are made to order have already been manufactured. Again not part of the game.
     
    Last edited by spectral, Jul 3, 2019
  12. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Nov 21, 2005
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    Click on the forums and 10 alerts to go through. Hopefully I won't miss anybody, or if it appears I did then I hope the points addressed from those I do cover also cover those.

    Does any development ever go exactly to plan? Minor stuff that does not impact gameplay and leaves it still running on an otherwise identical system... that is petty.

    And?

    Why waste your time becoming the biggest little fish if you can convincingly take a swipe at the king?

    Do you have and workups of the "while streaming" thing? I should be interested to read about that. The Chinese thing is potentially a problem, and reason I could see some want to skip out on it.


    I can see why some would enjoy the features Valve provides. Consider my words here an open invitation for anybody that cares to sell me on why Valve's, usually pretty easily replicated, efforts are indeed so valuable as to have their absence noted in all this.

    You had a false impression of my position then, and I might have contributed to the misunderstanding -- I don't think anybody has been particularly upset at my indifference thus far. That said I am still at something of a loss for why people want to go after Epic.

    I already addressed what I see as the utterly minor and almost inconsequential change from Steam key to Epic key a few lines back. Same response really.

    So GOG have further restrictions on top of nominally being DRM free. Don't see what that has to do with the abstract concept being contemplated.

    I did look at the picture. Some of it is dubious to me and I realise now it was an earlier post that was bumped last night wherein I had previously addressed it. I can go again if you want.

    Warning: Spoilers inside!

    I believe they call it opportunity cost, something Epic also seems to be willing to pay for (the whole make up the difference thing). Not to mention if it is "exclusive" to them then people don't have the easy option -- have you ever just bought something on Amazon or whatever rather than going to the vendor's own site despite the vendor probably being cheaper? Same deal.
     
  13. Ericthegreat

    Ericthegreat Not New Member

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    Vana'diel
    Again, I'm not saying your wrong, but no it is harder for people to go to another pharmacy, then for you to do a 3 minute download. (Again you are correct, this is bs that now you have to have another store installed)
     
  14. spectral

    spectral GBAtemp Fan

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    Nov 10, 2012
    But people don't want the launcher on their PC. Rightfully or not they don't trust it. They bought a product with the understanding that it would work with software they do trust(again rightfully or not). Now they can't use the game they paid for without installing something they believe is spyware(their claims not mine).
     
  15. Bimmel

    Bimmel ~ Game Soundtrack Collector ~

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    Yes. Since I knew the story needed 2-3 more games to finish I wanted a refund.
     
  16. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    United Kingdom
    Question at this point.

    If Steam is a third party in all this, and not one where you are effectively guaranteed/assured a spot (or better yet spot at a decent deal for you) then even if it were not something I could write off as a minor thing (again same game, same PC, no subscription, no dongle, no major software overhaul necessary) would that be something to consider in all this?

    Or if you prefer I am writing a new novel. I say once it is done I will submit it to [insert world leading book publisher] for consideration. If they give me unfavourable terms though, or indeed their rival gives me better, and I pull out of that one then are you in a position to be terribly upset? You are still getting my vision of a novel, that you presumably thought enough of to back at the time.
     
  17. spectral

    spectral GBAtemp Fan

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    The difference is without installing software they believe is unsafe they can't use the product. Whereas they bought it for software they did think was safe. Just because to you and actually me, it's a minor thing. That doesn't mean it is to everyone. People really believe the epic launcher is spying on them.
     
  18. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Is this the same line of thought that led to that kinect thing the other year?
     
  19. spectral

    spectral GBAtemp Fan

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    And how easily people are ready to believe the Huawei, Kaspersky BS when someone in government has beef with whatever country pisses then off at the time. At the moment people are being told China is bad and spying on us, a chinese company has a large stake in Epic so therefore epic is spying.
     
    Last edited by spectral, Jul 3, 2019
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  20. Armadillo

    Armadillo GBAtemp Psycho!

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    Why? Why do people need to "sell you" on them? Other people find value enough in them for it to be noted as a problem with the Epic launcher for them. Why can't you just accept you place a different value on them to others? Instead of constantly "tell me why" just so you can say "easily replicated" not a big deal.


    Really? Still. After people constantly telling you why. You are a still at a loss? Really? Sure disagree with their reasons, claim it's not a big deal, but still at loss, really?

    Not just gog. Who sells digital stuff and permits you to resell then?

    Not just "they can't stop me" because it's drm free, who actually lets you sell it properly then. So you sell it and lose access to the original, same as selling a physical copy.
     
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