FDA says stop taking animal drugs for COVID

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I guess some people don't realise that animal formulations of Ivermectin are different to human ones. I still don't like how it's being dismissed when it seems like a good idea to do comprehensive trials on any candidates that show the slightest promise. There are smaller trials out there (that seem to be getting harder to find since I last looked) that show possible benefits so it's suspicious when certain organisations are desperate to quash it.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/
 

Xzi

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I still don't like how it's being dismissed when it seems like a good idea to do comprehensive trials on any candidates that show the slightest promise.
Why is that a good idea? The COVID-19 vaccines are among the highest efficacy vaccines that have ever been created. The only people seeking out "alternatives" are the nutters who believe the government invented the vaccines to track them, or some other equally-crazy conspiracy theory which doesn't hold up against the slightest bit of scrutiny.

Even Trump has finally started publicly advocating for vaccination, but it seems the beast he helped create has now grown out of his control.
 
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Why is that a good idea? The COVID-19 vaccines are among the highest efficacy vaccines that have ever been created. The only people seeking out "alternatives" are the nutters who believe the government invented the vaccines to track them, or some other equally-crazy conspiracy theory which doesn't hold up against the slightest bit of scrutiny.

Even Trump has finally started publicly advocating for vaccination, but it seems the beast he helped create has now grown out of his control.
Come on, that's an automatic political response rather than a scientific one and you know it. I'm pretty sure I read there were billions of dollars in contracts awarded to develop new treatments already. The vaccines are great but it would be ridiculous to consider the case closed.
 

Xzi

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Come on, that's an automatic political response rather than a scientific one and you know it.
The efficacy of the vaccines is entirely a scientific matter, one which is indisputable.

I'm pretty sure I read there were billions of dollars in contracts awarded to develop new treatments already.
Treatments are only necessary for people who put themselves at risk for severe illness caused by COVID, AKA people who refuse vaccination. They are not a replacement for vaccination or something that should be relied upon as the only line of defense against this virus.

The vaccines are great but it would be ridiculous to consider the case closed.
A cure would be great, but again, nobody should be aiming to catch COVID-19 with severe symptoms in the first place. Vaccines are capable of ending this pandemic, just as anti-vaxxers are capable of extending it by becoming incubators for new, vaccine-resistant variants.
 
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The efficacy of the vaccines is entirely a scientific matter, one which is indisputable.
I did not say anything about alternatives to vaccines so your defensiveness is entirely misplaced and as I said an automatic response to right-wing antivaxxers.

Medical science doesn't care about the left/right battle going on in the US. It has always been normal practice to research and develop multiple attack vectors for any given disease and Covid is no different. There are already other treatments being investigated and any promising candidates will and should be given larger scale trials to ascertain their efficacy in the population. This process always begins will in vitro studies, and Ivermectin showed enough reactivity that it warranted small scale trials that I linked to above, I see absolutely no reason to dismiss that and not attempt larger scale studies. We're supposed to be promoting good science not trying to squash it because of politics.
 

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I did not say anything about alternatives to vaccines
You didn't have to, it was implied. Nobody who's already gotten the COVID-19 vaccine is going to think it a good (or necessary) idea to take horse de-wormer as a treatment for the same.

It has always been normal practice to research and develop multiple attack vectors for any given disease and Covid is no different. There are already other treatments being investigated and any promising candidates will and should be given larger scale trials to ascertain their efficacy in the population.
Right, I already acknowledged that. What you seem to not want to acknowledge is that vaccines are preventative, whereas treatments can only be used reactively, after a person is already showing severe symptoms which may well result in long-term damage or death regardless.

We're supposed to be promoting good science not trying to squash it because of politics.
Promoting good science and promoting vaccination are one and the same. Anybody promoting Ivermectin as a treatment for COVID-19 is doing so solely as a political stunt, and they're causing quantifiable harm/death in the process. By all means, study it further, but I guarantee you that we've already got much more effective treatments available, such as Regeneron. Lack of treatment options hasn't been an issue for a long while now, the issue is a lack of adults willing to act responsibly and in the best interest of their communities.
 
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ghjfdtg

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To be honest i don't care what the anti-vaxxers take. They can drink pure poison if they want ([dark humor on]one problem less[dark humor off]).
I do care if they endanger other people by convincing them of this nonsense instead of getting a safe vaccine. Just fucking take the shots. I'm through both now. Strangely that didn't increase my 5G coverage.:unsure:
 
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@Xzi I can't have a discussion with you if you don't actually listen to what I'm saying and keep throwing political points at me. If it helps you to stop your assumptions and see my actual position, my best subject at med school was pharmacology and I am of course a bloody vaccine advocate. Can we stop with strawmen now? I can't continue if you keep coming at this as if you're defending against anti-vaxxers instead of having an actual intellectual conversation.
 

WiiMiiSwitch

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Why is that a good idea? The COVID-19 vaccines are among the highest efficacy vaccines that have ever been created. The only people seeking out "alternatives" are the nutters who believe the government invented the vaccines to track them, or some other equally-crazy conspiracy theory which doesn't hold up against the slightest bit of scrutiny.

Even Trump has finally started publicly advocating for vaccination, but it seems the beast he helped create has now grown out of his control.
because americans do things the american way
 
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D34DL1N3R

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@Xzi I can't have a discussion with you if you don't actually listen to what I'm saying and keep throwing political points at me. If it helps you to stop your assumptions and see my actual position, my best subject at med school was pharmacology and I am of course a bloody vaccine advocate. Can we stop with strawmen now? I can't continue if you keep coming at this as if you're defending against anti-vaxxers instead of having an actual intellectual conversation.

I really don't see Xzi doing that. What I saw is that you were informed about the difference between treatments and vaccines and other areas where you are incorrect. It seems that you feel being corrected equates a non intelligent conversation.
 
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lokomelo

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Ivermectin is being used here in Brazil A LOT. Many people, including doctors, are on board with a drug cocktail that is said to cure covid, the narrative is that those who keep home, take vaccine and wear masks are helping the communists against our beloved Country.
When someone who took the cocktail do die from covid, they argue that this person started the treatment to late, or did something wrong with the medication.

Obviously there is politics involved in that, as this cocktail was recommended by the president himself (witch by the way, did refused to get a vaccine).

Needless to say that the thing is going bad here, we already reached 570,000 deaths, but the cocktail people said that the "stay in home" movement is what is killing people.
 
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I really don't see Xzi doing that. What I saw is that you were informed about the difference between treatments and vaccines and other areas where you are incorrect. It seems that you feel being corrected equates a non intelligent conversation.
No what you saw was someone go off on a long rebuttal based on an incorrect assumption. It's almost as if Americans are programmed to respond to certain talking points in an automatic way based on whether they think the person is left or right wing. He even started off by stating my position was implied which was a shitty way to address anyone - especially when it was an incorrect assumption. None of my actual comment was anything to do with vaccines or their effects. I find it ridiculous I'm having to defend myself about this when I've spent the last year advocating vaccines to everyone under the sun.

Actually screw that, quote me where anything I said is incorrect. Not what @Xzi claimed I said, but what I actually said.

Edit: @Xzi this one is specifically for you https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/08/1097542
 
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RAHelllord

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I guess some people don't realise that animal formulations of Ivermectin are different to human ones. I still don't like how it's being dismissed when it seems like a good idea to do comprehensive trials on any candidates that show the slightest promise. There are smaller trials out there (that seem to be getting harder to find since I last looked) that show possible benefits so it's suspicious when certain organisations are desperate to quash it.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

Unless that study has been properly peer reviewed I'd take it with a large grain of salt, but more importantly in this case the FDA is 100% in the right telling people to stop taking the variation for animals because it's a) not the same thing and b) not proven to be safe for humans either way.
If people would think pursuing the (human) Ivermectin is worth the effort we'll probably see new studies for that pop up eventually, nobody in power is trying to quash anything there.

Why is that a good idea? The COVID-19 vaccines are among the highest efficacy vaccines that have ever been created. The only people seeking out "alternatives" are the nutters who believe the government invented the vaccines to track them, or some other equally-crazy conspiracy theory which doesn't hold up against the slightest bit of scrutiny.

Even Trump has finally started publicly advocating for vaccination, but it seems the beast he helped create has now grown out of his control.

People with a compromised immune system (AIDS/HIV, chemotherapy patients, Lupus, various other autoimmune diseases) can't get the vaccine because it either won't give them immunity or might even harm them outright, and thus right now need to rely on preventative measures of themselves and others. We need better protection for those people and having a non-vaccine medication available is the best way to go about it, which is what I assume is subcon's point here, too.
 
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