Hardware Enterking hints at 3DS log being accessable to vendors

[Rydian]

Let me address a few points:

Firstly in the scenario I imagine, the firmware install would be fine. It would be force or whatever but would not actually do anything during the installation to detect a flashcart.You can't force firmware/software updates in the US.

The lawsuit over the OtherOS portion is because consumer law in the EU (not in any other region) does not allow the removal of advertised features.The consumer law in the EU is what's allowing the refunds (skipping right past a court case and getting it from the store it was bought from). The class-action lawsuits are in the US, and are being done because the US doesn't have the kind of consumer protection laws that cover removing select features from a system while leaving the rest operable (like the UK does).

This situation is different. If you code something so that a flashcart basically bricks a 3DS, that is not in violation of that law.I covered this in the post I quoted, with links. Simply removing a feature is enough to generate a lawsuit, remotely bricking is completely out of the question.

QUOTE(doyama @ Mar 8 2011, 07:45 PM) If a third party unauthorized application blows away your 3DS that's not Nintendo's fault even if they put that functionality into the device.

Yes it would be, because it's not the device that blows it, it's Nintendo's code purposely blowing it. Again this was in my previous post, with links.

QUOTE(doyama @ Mar 8 2011, 07:45 PM)

If you put a killswitch code into the 3DS that's not illegal in any way. A killswitch code in the device, is no different than debug code or whatever. They are allowed to put that in if they want.

Incorrect. You may be thinking of a killswitch in a leased or rented device (such as a car), but in that case the car is NOT under your ownership. In this case the system is legally purchased and under your ownership.

I'm not even bothering with the rest of your post because it's stuff that doesn't apply to the situation.
Lease =/= Purchase.
TOS =/= EULA.
Goods =/= Service.
Show me some law or legal notices that apply to THIS kind of situation (purchasing a product, a good).

 

[damedus]

In simple terms only thing nintendo can do is not allow entry to their servers if they see flashcart use on the logs. They cant however brick my device because I BOUGHT IT its mine. I can do with it whatever I wanted with it. They can block piracy as long as it dosent block official gaming. Lets say i use my cart in it and they block the use of it it HAS by law to still use any software the console came with and any official game I buy. Even sony is aware of this with the ps3 if you are banned the web browser will still work and you can use a id spoof to log into the server because they cant tamper and disable your PSN software, all they can do is prevent you from accessing their servers(where such psn software connects to) if they could nuke the psn software on your ps3, they would and then none of the hacking methods would allow access to it. Law gives manufacturers rights to their info and servers but the actual unit belongs to the consumer and it must abide by law to allow the user to do as he pleases with it and as long as the code was not tampered and is in working order it has to boot they can prevent me access to the 3ds shop but not to play my games. The reason they can disable flash carts legally is that the system was not made to play flash carts thus they dont have to support them in updates and they use this loop to look at how the card enables itself in the system and close that hole.

 

[Rydian]

In simple terms only thing nintendo can do is not allow entry to their servers if they see flashcart use on the logs. They cant however brick my device because I BOUGHT IT its mine.

This.

Nintendo's online play is a service. They are within their right to ban you from it for any reason they deem fit. It could even be something racist, and while that'd get them a huge backlash, it wouldn't be illegal (because it's not a job or anything and is free).

However the console is a good, and is under a different set of restrictions and regulations than a service. You purchase a good and own it.

 

[pachura]

If your flashcart executes the killswitch that's not Nintendo's fault. We have code in there that no 'regular' use can ever execute. That doesn't make the code illegal, or the execution of that code illegal. If the flashcart triggers the code, that's your fault and yours alone.

Exactly. This is not Nintendo bricking your device intentionally - this is custom firmware bricking your device by jumping to an invalid memory address. No customer would ever defend this case in court.

PS. What about official firmware updates included in retail games ? Are they silent/forced, or do they leave you the option of not updating the firmware (and not playing the game at all) ?

 

[MelodieOctavia]

If your flashcart executes the killswitch that's not Nintendo's fault. We have code in there that no 'regular' use can ever execute. That doesn't make the code illegal, or the execution of that code illegal. If the flashcart triggers the code, that's your fault and yours alone.

Exactly. This is not Nintendo bricking your device intentionally - this is custom firmware bricking your device by jumping to an invalid memory address. No customer would ever defend this case in court.

PS. What about official firmware updates included in retail games ? Are they silent/forced, or do they leave you the option of not updating the firmware (and not playing the game at all) ?

Who is saying anything about custom firmware? It's a goddamn flash cart. And usually when an invalid memory address is accessed, it crashes the device and nothing more. Memory is volatile. It's not like anyone's trying to write to the NAND.

 

[Nollog]

In simple terms only thing nintendo can do is not allow entry to their servers if they see flashcart use on the logs. They cant however brick my device because I BOUGHT IT its mine.

This.

Nintendo's online play is a service. They are within their right to ban you from it for any reason they deem fit. It could even be something racist, and while that'd get them a huge backlash, it wouldn't be illegal (because it's not a job or anything and is free).

However the console is a good, and is under a different set of restrictions and regulations than a service. You purchase a good and own it.

Not the best example there.
Pretty sure discrimination based on race would be illegal in the EU.

Right though.