In the latest scrutiny over the biggest modern gaming controversy, lootboxes, the United Kingdom's Digital, Culture, Media, and Sport Committee has called both Epic Games and Electronic Arts into Parliament in order to discern whether lootboxes should be outlawed. With both companies publishing some of the largest video game franchises that include lootboxes as a major mechanic--Fortnite and FIFA, respectively--the Committee has begun an investigation into whether lootboxes are harming consumers. During the meeting, which was held on June 19th, Scotland's National Party MP claimed that studies and evidence showed that lootboxes have a close link to gambling. In response, EA's Vice President of Legal Affairs, Kerry Hopkins, made a few comments in the defense of lootboxes in video games, saying, "We don't call them lootboxes. They are instead referred to as surprise mechanics."

Hopkins continued her statement by stating the following, "We do agree with the UK gambling commission, the Australian gambling commission, and many other gambling commissions that they aren’t gambling, and we also disagree that there’s evidence that shows it leads to gambling. Instead, we think it’s like many other products that people enjoy in a healthy way, and like the element of surprise."

In attempts to further explain EA's stance on preventing lootboxes from being considered gambling, especially towards minors, Hopkins then said "People enjoy surprises, it's been a part of toys for years, like in Kinder Eggs or Hatchimals. [...] Lootboxes are actually quite ethical and quite fun, quite enjoyable to people".

Regardless of EA's own stance on the subject, it appears that smaller European countries do not agree, with Belgium and the Netherlands having outlawed lootboxes, resulting in the removal of those elements from their Belgian and Dutch releases, such as Blizzard and 2K removing the option to pay real money for lootboxes in Overwatch and NBA 2K18. Even in the United States, the Senate has put up a bill that, should it manage to be passed, would also ban pay-to-win microtransactions.

Source

 

[SushiKing]

Sure, I enjoy opening Loot boxes... Not when they are $199 a box...

 

[Stwert]

An ethical surprise mechanic?

Now I’m not the person to know this, never have and never will purchase loot boxes.

So perhaps someone else can answer this and I may change my mind, when you buy them, do they say, a tree has been planted in your name, a donation has been made to the Red Cross, and so on.

If that’s the case, I may actually purchase some of these ethical products.

 

[Rabbid4240]

I see them all the time at my local grocery store, so I don't think so. Unless they're pulling off some sneaky tactic to sell em' there...

Not so much kinder eggs themselfs, but food that entirely envelops a non edible substance.
From what i remember reading of that law.

They are illegal because there is a toy inside the egg which you could choke on if you dont open the egg and take the toy out. There are kinder eggs in america which are worse versions which separate the toy from the choclate. The only reason I know this is because I go to the uk every summer and smuggle kinder eggs back to the us to eat .

I just thought it was funny that EA was comparing loot boxes to something I thought was illegal.

 

[fringle]

Oh boy! If I buy one are they going to send me the chocolate coating in the mail?

 

[Bladexdsl]

fuck off ea just fuck off. the day ea goes out of business will be a glorious day indeed!

 

[SkittleDash]

...Did they... Just... You can't compare lootboxes with Kinder Eggs! I don't recall anytime where we were allowed to eat the case after taking the contents out. And it's not even fucking chocolate.

 

[Owenge]

Aren't kinder eggs illegal in the U.S?

Ironic

 

[AbyssalMonkey]

Just ban any game involving lootboxes for yourself and your kids. It is what I do. Think of the future.
Games by themselves are addictive, kinder eggs are by definition NOT.

Games by themselves don't have to be addictive. That's misrepresenting. Many games are designed to be addictive, but they are not by definition. There are psychological tendencies you can exploit with certain mechanics, such as the classical skinner-box: Overwatch has infinite leveling and every level gives you a lootbox; League of Legends had a level 30 cap, but they removed it and added infinite leveling as well as crate/key unlocks for challenges; all to keep you playing far longer than you would normally enjoy playing the game.

Games don't need to be addictive, they should however be compelling. Civilization is a near perfect example of this exact trait of gaming. It employs nearly no abusive game mechanics that are designed to keep you playing longer than you would normally be having fun, but "One more turn" syndrome is a thing many people experience. Why? Because the game compels people to keep playing, to see how the game plays out, how their story wins or ends. There is something to be said about how this abuses gestalt and cognative biases for completing tasks, however, it is far less of an issue and doesn't train the brain in the same way that a task-reward system like lootboxes or gambling do.

You say that kinder eggs by definition aren't addictive, but I question that notion. It works on the same fundamentals as classical conditioning and task-reward systems: open the egg, get the toy. I propose an alternative: Disney Kinder Eggs: all your favorite princesses are behind the chocolate. Now you need to buy 100 of them to get your child their Elsa. Yes, kinder eggs are indeed addictive, they just don't have enough of a reward to develop the conditioning.

 

[Sonic Angel Knight]

You what? How can this be?

I remember shaking those eggs in public when I was little. Good times.

There is just certain places that don't get certain products. For example, I never saw the item on the right, I always knew the item on the left. That's just how it is for me at least. It's just like that sometimes.

 

[Kioku]

I don’t see how it’s the companies fault that kids steal their parents credit cards.

That’s the parents responsibility to raise their kids. What the hell are the parents doing letting their kids fuck them over and do nothing about it.

There is Federal Law that protects from unauthorized purchases, The Truth Lending Act and they are only responsible for $50 in purchases made to their accounts.


There is protections beyond Federal Law in Zero Liability Policies many card companies have and they’ll let you off the hook for the entire amount.


Under Federal Protection FTC ordered Apple to pay $32.5 million to reimburse parents for unauthorized app purchases made by their kids.


Even with these protections it’s still not the companies fault that you have poorly raised kids and you do nothing to stop them, or teach them life lessons.



But instead people are going to make excuses and say they got our kids addicted so it’s not out fault. You don’t understand psychology and addictions and the teenage mind. My kids wanted to be cool with all those Fortnite skins, he’s a victim. They are susceptible to addictions can’t you see! The Science let’s me off the hook. It’s never our fault, it’s that rap music and violent video games that makes them do bad. Had nothing to do with me. But let me rush to take all the credit when they get good grades and win competitions, that was all me and my parenting.

My daughter is addicted to the "black bag" toys. Always wanting one. Always asking for them. Yes, it is the parents responsibility to teach their children the difference of want and need. However, we can not 100% control their actions. No matter how hard we try.

I was a good kid, outside of the fact that I still "borrowed" my moms debit card to purchase things. Protections be damned, you should have to verify you are the name on the card and that you are legally allowed to make this purchase. The unfortunate truth is that this is not feasible.

So, EA needs to take responsibility in their egregious actions. Also, it's not just children. It's an unethical practice for gamers of all kinds to be subjected to. Remember Battlefront 2? You either had to put an unrealistic amount of time into the game, or spend some coin to get what you want. It's underhanded, sleazy and downright wrong.

I agree that parents need a better grip on certain aspects, but I do point the blame at EA and the like as well.

 

[l13f4k3]

Here in my country, kinder eggs are banned
No company can offer "gifts" packed with unhealthy food nor they can advertise their products ussing cartoon characters. as an example happy meal includes apple, sugar free juice, cherry tomato, and the most basic of burgers just to fill the law and being able to keep offering toys.

 

[Dax_Fame]

Get em out of here! I'll be sure to add this to my checklist of reasons I want to move to the UK.

Seems the banning of loot boxes is picking up steam... this excites me. I look forward to this crap ending for good, everywhere.

 

[D34DL1N3R]

I see them all the time at my local grocery store, so I don't think so. Unless they're pulling off some sneaky tactic to sell em' there...

The ones you're seeing are called Kinder Joy Eggs & do not have a toy inside. Kinder Surprise Eggs are illegal in the US.

 

[Haloman800]

F the government. If person A wants to sell a digital item & person B wants to buy it, they should have zero involvement. This is all about the government controlling what you can and can't do.

 

[71r3n]

Wow.
Seriously, i absolutely dislike EAs policis, but they said something realy true i never even bothered to think about.
Lootboxes are definitly gambling. But arent those Kindereggs also?

Just thinking back, standing infront of the Kinderegg tower, shaking one after another to be sure (as sure as a kid could be ) that i get what i wanted.
Now thinking back, and cant argue against the statement of it beeing the same as Kindereggs.

New Slogan:
EA KILLED MY CHILDHOOD!!!111

 

[DANTENDO]

F the government. If person A wants to sell a digital item & person B wants to buy it, they should have zero involvement. This is all about the government controlling what you can and can't do.

So if you had a daughter and she spent most of her wages on lootboxes youd be fine with tht-as others been saying these digital items should be earnt in the fkin game and thts it-thers no other way anyone can defend lootboxes

 

[KazoWAR]

ban happy meals

 

[Jacklack3]

People use the argument that it's not gambling since you can't lose.

So if I opened a casino and just made it so the minimum was 0.25 cents (meaning you can't lose) can I open up my casino to kids?

 

[eriol33]

I don't know one which one I hate more, EA or the gamers who made this business model "sustainable"

 

[julianuf]

Disgusting. Shame on EA.

Games by themselves don't have to be addictive. That's misrepresenting. Many games are designed to be addictive, but they are not by definition. There are psychological tendencies you can exploit with certain mechanics, such as the classical skinner-box: Overwatch has infinite leveling and every level gives you a lootbox; League of Legends had a level 30 cap, but they removed it and added infinite leveling as well as crate/key unlocks for challenges; all to keep you playing far longer than you would normally enjoy playing the game.

Games don't need to be addictive, they should however be compelling. Civilization is a near perfect example of this exact trait of gaming. It employs nearly no abusive game mechanics that are designed to keep you playing longer than you would normally be having fun, but "One more turn" syndrome is a thing many people experience. Why? Because the game compels people to keep playing, to see how the game plays out, how their story wins or ends. There is something to be said about how this abuses gestalt and cognative biases for completing tasks, however, it is far less of an issue and doesn't train the brain in the same way that a task-reward system like lootboxes or gambling do.

You say that kinder eggs by definition aren't addictive, but I question that notion. It works on the same fundamentals as classical conditioning and task-reward systems: open the egg, get the toy. I propose an alternative: Disney Kinder Eggs: all your favorite princesses are behind the chocolate. Now you need to buy 100 of them to get your child their Elsa. Yes, kinder eggs are indeed addictive, they just don't have enough of a reward to develop the conditioning.

Agree 100%. I wish that we could do away with that kind of randomness at all levels, but I'll be happy with just seeing it gone from games.

At least with physical items, you are able to actually do stuff with them... Trade, give away, sell, or skip the randomness and buy one off eBay.