DSi mode can be achieved i think for DS2 owners

Discussion in 'Supercard' started by Gh0sti, Feb 1, 2011.

Feb 1, 2011
  1. Gh0sti
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    Member Gh0sti iOS Guru

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    from looking at the CycloDS iEvo, it uses the cooking coach save hack, which lets it boot into DSi mode, there is also the option to dual boot, either DSimode or DS mode, which it uses 2 rom images to do so, all the SC team needs to do is flash the DS2 with cooking coach save hack, and give option to dual boot or change the boot, but also keeping the rom image they already have so that DS2 can boot into DS mode,

    we can get better homebrew especially with the emulators if this can be achieved
     


  2. kiafazool

    Member kiafazool GBAtemp Maniac

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    go tell that to the supercard team

    i think we will have to wait before something actually comes up
    considering the ievo firmware is still in beta and maybe later we wont need to use roms to patch the ievo
     
  3. Gh0sti
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    Member Gh0sti iOS Guru

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    its just the firmware that needs to be flashed, cuz ievo has 2 different rom images that it has been flashed with cooking coach and transformers game
     
  4. Etalon

    Member Etalon Former Akaio Fanboy

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    So, basically you have no idea but you're trying to tell us what TS should do ?
     
  5. SifJar

    Member SifJar Not a pirate

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    First off: Dual boot will (most likely) never be possible on any existing card other than iEvo. Why? Well, because the chip which holds the bootloader is (I assume) too small on older cards to hold two seperate bootloaders. And quite likely, extra hardware is needed or whatever.

    But it could have two bootloaders which could be flashed at will. (i.e. you could swap them around).

    Another problem: For this to work, I have a feeling that the whole ROM or a significant portion of it may be necessary to pass the tests of the DSi System Menu, to allow the cart to boot in the first place. There may not be room for this in the bootloader memory chip (and no, it can't be on the micro SD card, System Menu can't read that).

    Then they'd need to modify the payload of the exploit to load code of the micro SD card (this step should be "easy"; they know how the hardware works, should be able to write a micro SD driver fairly easily).

    Finally they'd have to write a kernel that works properly in DSi mode and is capable of loading games and homebrew in DSi mode. This part would probably be the hardest, assuming that the bootloader part is possible. (If it is possible, it should be relatively simple for them, they know how to flash the bootloader chip, they just need to flash it with ROM+exploited save).

    Now assuming this is all possible, it is theoretically possible on ALL DSi mode flashcards with an upgradable bootloader. If anyone happens to know the capacity of the chips holding the bootloaders on these cards, I'd be quite interested to know if they are large enough to hold the ROM or not.
     
  6. Rydian

    Member Rydian Resident Furvert™

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    GRUB is too big to fit in MBR, so when you install linux what's actually written to the MBR is a "forwarder" that then boots GRUB off one of the partitions.
     
  7. rave420

    Member rave420 GBAtemp Regular

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    the chips don't hold the rom.
    They hold an entry in the bootloader to load the nescesary files from the microsd or some other flash chip.

    Therefore, the only thing that needs to be in the bootloader section is a call to initalize the chip that holds the data, and a jump to a new adress.

    therefore, the bootloader can be small. Also, the iEvo beta firmware doesn't come with two full sized rom images either..
     
  8. SifJar

    Member SifJar Not a pirate

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    But would that work with the DSi System Menu? Surely if the system checks the bootloader BEFORE loading it, it'd be confused if it was just a "forwarder"?
     
  9. Rydian

    Member Rydian Resident Furvert™

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    I'm not that sure on the booting process.
     
  10. SifJar

    Member SifJar Not a pirate

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    Neither am I, I'm making a blind assumption, based on what I guess would be a good idea.
     
  11. Gh0sti
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    Member Gh0sti iOS Guru

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    not full size but enough data to be read as the cooking game(DSi) along with transformers (DS) that is what i meant it has enough ROM image to do that

    i still think the SC team can do it, honestly within hours of DSi 1.4.1 released they bypassed it with a simple file replacement
     
  12. Qtis

    Member Qtis Grey Knight Inquisitor

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    But still they don't have a working cart in DSi mode. The onboard CPU gives them certain possibilities to run things after a FW update blocks a cart.

    I'd like to see how everything is done, but currently the only flashcart running DSi mode is the iEvo. Thought the Supercard SDK is interesting, the possibilities of using the DSi hardware makes the iEvo a more viable development platform [​IMG]

    The current situation may be quite the same as when the DSi came along and the firmware blocked old flashcarts with too small onboard memory (for firmwares). We'll see how this develops, but remember, nothing is just as easy as "put a new bootloader and voilà, it works!". Someone has to make the coding to make everything work with a new code..


    -Qtis
     
  13. Evo.lve

    Member Evo.lve All that you could be.

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    Theoretically should be possible.

    Practically, no.
     
  14. Cuelhu

    Member Cuelhu КУ!

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    now that iEVO was officially released we should wait and see what TSC will do. I hope they don't release a DSThree just for this.
     
  15. KidIce

    Member KidIce Smart Ass

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    Inside a slot 1 DS flash cart is an FPGA (almost always of the Actel brand, the DS2 uses an Actel ProASIC3). An FPGA can be coded to be just about anything: a CPU, a DSP, a GPU, RAM, a mixture of these things, etc. It is a programmable breadboard. The only thing a talented FPGA coder is limited by is the real estate and speed of the FPGA. Beyond that they can program that thing to be just about any chip, system or what have you of any type. Even a SOC like this C= 64 motherboard.

    FPGA's can also be programmed to have protected areas, so that outsiders can't overwrite critical areas to the programmed chip's function, reverse engineer it or re-purpose the FPGA. Most flash cart manufacturers have protected certain areas of their carts and even their update software cannot touch it, to alter that area will require a JTAG and the keys to that protected area. They do this so that your average user, game makers/Nintendo, ill-coded home brew, their own updates and trojans can't brick their product.

    Pretty much any FPGA in a DS flash cart made could be programmed w/ this exploit. Can the one in YOUR cart, or in this case the DS2 be re-programmed? Depends on how much of the FPGA they protected for one. Most non-SDHC flash carts could be reprogrammed to use SDHC's, but that area is protected (again to prevent brickage, what can you do w/ a slot 1 cart that can't read its SD?) so you would either need to send it to the cart manufacturer (no one is going to offer that service) or buy a JTAG and ask them for the keys (a JTAG costs as more than most flash carts and NO ONE is going to give you the keys).

    After they update the cart w/ this exploit (if they haven't protected the area they need to upadte) will they have to sacrifice real estate for the CPU they've programmed the FPGA for? Are you willing to lose the DS2's emulators and other special functions so that it can run DSi home brew?

    Will it require that? I don't know. But you guys are clearly debating something you should probably do a bit more research on.

    Can the SCDS2 do it? Yes, but so can the DS Extreme if someone could update the boot strap to do so. Problem is, is the area that holds the magic to do this protected? Welp then we're screwed and we'll be needin to buy a SCDS2i.

    I'll be using SudokuHaxx either way, thanks.
     
  16. Nathan Drake

    Member Nathan Drake Obligations fulfilled, now I depart.

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    I think everybody just got told, including myself, and I hadn't even posted.

    So basically, this would take steps that are basically far too expensive and difficult to achieve to be worthwhile. Knowing this, I highly doubt we'll be seeing a DSi mode on the SCDS2 in the future. It will more than likely take a brand new flash cart designed to dual boot into DS and DSi mode to be able to manage this.
     
  17. KidIce

    Member KidIce Smart Ass

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    Maybe, maybe not. I didn't mean to be all doom and gloom, just to stop the nonsense talk. The SCDS2's CPU is not going to help here for example, and in fact might well be in the way.

    I think most the DS flash cart manufacturers have learned to leave them selves' some space in their FPGA to combat system updates and such. If there is enough left that isn't protected in the SCDS2 (I have no idea how they've programmed that chip) and if what IS protected doesn't interfere w/ including the exploit, then yeah, we'll see DSi homebrew support on our SCDS2's w/ a simple firmware update.

    It really just depends on how open they've left their FPGA and if there s space to program it. The FP stands for "field prgrammable", meaning you can do it anywhere at anytime... As long as you haven't locked down the area you need to reprogram.

    The iEvo is using an Actel ProASIC3 according to the review sample pics. Same damn hardware, they've just programmed it differently. If they wanted to they could program the SCDS2's CPU into that chip. DYSWIM?
     
  18. firesavvy

    Newcomer firesavvy Member

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    i c whut u did thur
     
  19. Mbmax

    Member Mbmax Homebrew addicted

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    The stacked memory on my ez5i isn't too small for a dual bootstrap and it has a dedicated flash memory for the faked game's save. [​IMG]
     
  20. Rydian

    Member Rydian Resident Furvert™

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    What about the forwarding technique?

    Would it just be too slow, latency-wise, to get info from the SD?
     

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