1. Hanafuda

    Hanafuda GBAtemp Addict
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    There's no need to discredit the Mueller report, it was a nothingburger in the end. No collusion, and a pussy-out on 'obstruction.' The investigation now is regarding the actions that led to the appointment of the special counsel in the first place, i.e. the generation of the so-called "dossier," the FISA warrants obtained with fabricated evidence, the DNC's reaching out to Ukraine for dirt on Trump, Manafort, et al.

    And the 'viable distraction' came out in the NYT yesterday, though it could hardly be said to be Trump's doing. You know that paper isn't ever going to carry water for Trump. But they did expose that Schiff's staff had prior contact and got the info from the whistleblower before the complaint ever got filed. That's huge. Because 1) that means the whistleblower didn't follow the procedures that the WPA requires in order to be protected under that law. To be a bona-fide whistleblower, the complaint needs to go to ICIG first and only. The whistleblower instead went first to the CIA, which said you got nothing here, then he/she went to partisan (Democrat) interests in Congress, i.e. Schiff. So the whistleblower isn't even a whistleblower. Just a LEAKER. 2) Schiff's claim yesterday that his office merely directed the whistleblower to hire counsel and how to file the complaint properly is bullshit, because they took the info and used it. Schiff was tweeting teasers for this in late August. Due to his prior knowledge and contact with the whistleblower, he should have recused himself. Instead he's chairing the Committee LOL. Schiff lied about his contact with the whistleblower, and it looks like Pelosi did too. Whether it was him personally or his staff, Schiff claimed on TV that "We" never had contact, but this is now proven false in the NYT. And Pelosi let slip on 60 Minutes that she had prior knowledge of the complaint and the transcript before either were released. How do these Democrats have these materials up front??? The House Intelligence Committee rules require disclosure of any such info to all members. Schiff didn't share his advance contact with the whistleblower or the accusation info with anyone on the Committee, and flat out denied it until forced to admit. The whole thing stinks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  2. DarthDub

    DarthDub Amateur Hacker
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    What a load of horseshit.
     
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  3. RationalityIsLost101

    RationalityIsLost101 GBAtemp Regular
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    To my understanding of the timeline:
    1. The whistleblower went to CIA internal legal staff to get clarification and raise concerns on what was being discussed with him. He/she only sought to submit a formal whistleblower complaint after hearing that after CIA's legal staff had direct communication w/ DOJ that there was discussion of the transcript being moved to server.

    2. Upon collecting information on how to properly submit whistleblower complaint from a member from schiff's staff (not schiff directly) and the advice was given to get a lawyer in addition to the other steps discussed a formal complaint was then filed.

    2b. Are you seriously suggesting Schiff to recuse himself when Barr isn't? Do you think Barr should also recuse? I'm trying to see how partisan you are when it comes to perceived conflicts of interest before continuing this discussion.

    I don't know I if I was about to blow a whistle that could potentially ruin my livelihood and career in intelligence services I would want to make damn sure that someone would actually follow up and investigate what I would be reporting. I'm trying to empathize to get in a frame of thinking of what this individual would be thinking at the time. It's very clear they were meticulous in their compliant.

    Whether they had assistance and to what degree is reported in the link below:
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-...ence-committee-staff-before-filing-complaint/

    Also here is an informative read on Whistleblower law and interpretation in context with this current event:
    https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...histleblower-law-says-about-sharing-complain/

    "But national security lawyer Kel McClanahan wrote in a blog post that the whistleblower "would be on strong constitutional and statutory footing" if he or she brought the complaint directly to Schiff, but noted that doing so still risks consequences, such as the loss of a security clearance."

    So at worst, still legal and valid complaint, doesn't change scope or path of impeachment inquiry, but it's possible republicans can retaliate against the whistle-blower by removing security clearance effectively neutering their position in intelligence services? Big win??

    In the end, the source of the complaint doesn't matter once it was validated from the transcript that Trump himself released. Is there an actual defense for Trump's actions in the transcript that isn't a what-about Biden/Democrats? I've read Fox news articles ever since this release and have watched multiple interviews of the President's defenders.

    The best defense I've seen so far is just saying the President is trying to root out corruption. But there's no evidence I've seen to support him 'investigating corruption' outside of his own areas of interest in reelection. His involvement of personal lawyers in state department matters doesn't help either.

    TLDR: Ok after reading the blog post I have a lot more to say. I'm going to say the most troubling part for the whistle-blower receiving any potential retaliation is because he approached a staffer instead of Schiff directly, due to security clearances of "need-to-know". This torpedoes your whole argument. Neither instance invalidates the complaint that was submitted, just whether or not he/she may be subject to a loss of security clearance once this blows over. This also is at the discretion of the DNI to my knowledge. And I doubt he's going to penalize the whistle-blower in efforts to encourage whistle-blowing. I'm basing this on his congressional testimony from last week.

    https://www.justsecurity.org/66211/...d-from-congressional-intelligence-committees/

    "That being said, there are constitutional arguments to be made for a whistleblower’s right to petition Congress directly outside of the ICWPA process; in fact, the ICWPA originally included a requirement – which did not make it into the final law – that the president must inform Intelligence Community whistleblowers of that fact, and 5 U.S.C. § 7211 specifically states that “[t]he right of employees, individually or collectively, to petition Congress or a member of Congress, or to furnish information to either House of Congress, or to a committee or member thereof, may not be interfered with or denied.” "
     
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  4. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat
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    Seems Trump has run out of ideas on how to defend against the allegations being thrown his way, so he's circled back around to doubling down by publicly calling for China and Ukraine to investigate the Bidens. Apparently he thinks it's impossible to commit a crime in plain sight. I also find it amusing that, in the midst of a trade war, he thinks China would grant a request from him. I don't think this tweet was quite enough on its own to put him back in their good graces. :rofl:
     
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  5. seany1990

    seany1990 GBAtemp Regular
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    This is a good strategy on his part, Democrats are basing impeachment only on how the electorate will receive it and not on if it is the right thing to do. He's already committed an endless number of impeachable offences and it's only now they are showing some backbone. If he can convince the 30-50% (30% being the 20IQ voter base he cant lose no matter what) that what he is doing is normal then it wouldn't surprise anybody if Nancy lost her nerve.
     
  6. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat
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    It's more along the lines of impeaching based on the fact that this is such an easy corruption story for the public to digest, which is precisely why support for impeachment has gone up over ten points since the inquiry was announced.

    If Pelosi backs out now, that truly would be political suicide for the Democrats come 2020. No, I think this just gives them even more fuel for the fire. If Trump had gotten out in front of the whistleblower story by making this type of public request, things might have been different. It's too late now, this just further reinforces the need for impeachment.

    Edit: To further that point, Pelosi sent a letter to House Republican leader Kevin McCarthy reiterating the importance of the ongoing impeachment inquiry shortly after Trump's on-air stunt.

     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  7. KingVamp

    KingVamp Haaah-hahahaha!
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    How can anyone still support this person? Like imagine if Obama did any of this.
     
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  8. IncredulousP

    IncredulousP GBAtemp's Resident Bastard
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    Holy shit hahaha thank you for posting that, I haven't laughed this hard in a while.
     
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  9. billapong

    billapong GBAtemp Regular
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    So, did Biden win the democratic primaries yet?

    If he's not running against Trump in an election then he's not his opponent in anything.

    Just because he's a Democrat doesn't mean that a Republican can't investigate him and if that were so then the Democrats should not have been able to investigate Trump about possible collusion or be able to investigate him about Biden.

    So, do we now all agree that Democrats can't investigate Republicans because Republicans are their political opponents?
     
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  10. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat
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    That was never under any contention, and nor has any Democrat been accused of approaching a foreign government to ask for dirt on Trump/Republican senators.
     
  11. billapong

    billapong GBAtemp Regular
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    Polls ... Like they mean anything. You can't predict the future and I could care less what a group of Trump haters think about Trump. I don't need a poll for those results. Liberals voting about themselves, it's like watching the Emmy's were a bunch of elitist kiss each others asses. No thanks!
     
  12. morvoran

    morvoran Trumpican
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    Yeah, who could imagine Obama showing weakness and bowing to multiple foreign leaders such as a Saudi King, Japanese emperor, or the queen of England? He would never..... Oh wait....

    A Not-So-Brief List of All the Things President Obama Has Bowed To

    Yeah, Obama was such a strong leader who showed the world how strong America is. Pfff, give me a break.
     
  13. billapong

    billapong GBAtemp Regular
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    So, it's okay then for Democrats, who are all Trump's political opponents, because they are Democrats, to investigate Trump, but it's not okay for Trump to investigate any Democrats, because they are all his political opponents, because he's a Republican? Just making sure I'm starting hypocrisy by writing a H.
     
  14. morvoran

    morvoran Trumpican
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    Yeah, I've tried to explain to @Xzi that polls are never correct, but he just doesn't get it(like most liberals). Liberals use every little bit of info they can to prove their points even if the data is incomplete or just wrong. Maybe you can get through, but I know I never could. He'll still use polls to back up nonsense points.
     
  15. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat
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    You're missing the part about "approaching a foreign government." There are perfectly legal and non-partisan domestic avenues by which to investigate corruption among American politicians in either party.
     
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  16. RationalityIsLost101

    RationalityIsLost101 GBAtemp Regular
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    This has already been discussed. Please refer to my previous post that I quote below for your convenience. If you want to debate from there we can but I'm at a loss how this needs further explanation.

     
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  17. morvoran

    morvoran Trumpican
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    Yeah, about that........

    Now the dossier — financed by Hillary Clinton’s campaign and the Democratic National Committee, and compiled by the former British intelligence agent Christopher Steele — is likely to face new, possibly harsh scrutiny from multiple inquiries.

    I guess there wasn't a poll showing how many Democrats are corrupt and bribe/coerce foreign governments for dirt.
     
  18. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat
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    You're about a year late if you think any of this still matters. The Mueller investigation, which was started by a Republican deputy AG and conducted by a Republican special counsel, concluded with universal consensus that Russia helped to interfere with the 2016 election on Trump's behalf. That's probably why the Trump administration has been so desperate in recent months in their (failed) search to find any foreign ally who might help to discredit that consensus. You're grasping at straws just as they are for anything to distract from the Ukraine scandal, but regardless it remains front and center in the public consciousness.
     
  19. RationalityIsLost101

    RationalityIsLost101 GBAtemp Regular
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    This is about Trump not Clinton. Or are we in agreement that Trump was seeking assistance from a foreign national involving an aspiring political rival in an upcoming election?

    If you concede to that point then we can discuss how this may relate to other requests other politicians may have made and speculate what precedent this may set... But, I can't let this impede our current topic of discussion.
     
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  20. RationalityIsLost101

    RationalityIsLost101 GBAtemp Regular
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