Gaming Do you think the New 3DS is powerful enough to handle the ice climbers in Smash?

[duffmmann]

So I've seen this idea pop up from time to time when talking about potential DLC fighters for Smash. As you're likely aware, the Ice Climbers didn't make the roster this time because the 3DS version couldn't handle them especially when all 4 fighters were chosen as the duo, while the WiI U had no issue allowing for them to appear as a fighter. And Sakurai had stated he doesn't want the roster in both versions to have any differences (this also accounted for why character transformations were removed).

Thing is, when this announcement was made, it was clear that they were trying to get the ice climbers in the O3DS.

So, I know many have suggested this before, but I want to know if the idea has any real merit from someone who better understands the technical capabilities of the N3DS and what kind of power it took in the past games to get the ice climbers functioning properly: would the New 3DS be able to handle up to all 4 fighters playing as the ice climbers? They'd need to be only available as DLC to N3DS owners on the portable front obviously.

I really would love to see them return, I was pretty good with them.

 

[doctorgoat]

O3DS players wouldn't be able to play with it, so it wouldn't happen.

 

[duffmmann]

O3DS players wouldn't be able to play with it, so it wouldn't happen.

I don't see why this would stop it from being a possibility. Sakurai just wants the same roster on both versions of the game. He never once said that means the roster for the 3DS version has to be in every version of the 3DS. If anything a move like that could help contribute to the sale of more N3DS.

And really that is all besides the point anyway. My question isn't how likely we think such a choice might be, my question is could the N3DS handle the ice climbers, especially if all 4 fighters choose them.

 

[cvskid]

Don't see why not since rosalina and puma are in the game and there is no slowdown when there are 4 of them on screen at once.

 

[VinsCool]

I claim bs about that.

Those were removed, simple.
Nothing to do with the console power. Why would a double character be

Don't see why not since rosalina and puma are in the game and there is no slowdown when there are 4 of them on screen at once.

This

 

[NicEXE]

Don't see why not since rosalina and puma are in the game and there is no slowdown when there are 4 of them on screen at once.

Think of how many polygons Luma is made of.

 

[doctorgoat]

I don't see why this would stop it from being a possibility. Sakurai just wants the same roster on both versions of the game. He never once said that means the roster for the 3DS version has to be in every version of the 3DS. If anything a move like that could help contribute to the sale of more N3DS.

And really that is all besides the point anyway. My question isn't how likely we think such a choice might be, my question is could the N3DS handle the ice climbers, especially if all 4 fighters choose them.

If he wants the same roster across all the versions, it'd be ALL the versions.

Aside from that: Try asking the people who're porting special smash. They might know.

 

[jesterscourt]

It might be possible on N3DS/N3DSXL, however, the likelihood they will is slim to none. Nintendo wants parity between both versions, so it's not going to happen. Now, the NX version...

 

[duffmmann]

If he wants the same roster across all the versions, it'd be ALL the versions.

Aside from that: Try asking the people who're porting special smash. They might know.

I don't see why this is true when not every copy of the game is going to be getting all the DLC characters anyway. All he said is that he wants the same roster to be available in both versions, and if you have the N3DS, the roster would indeed allow for this. Plus, the same roster would indeed be available across all versions, you just wouldn't have access to the Ice Climbers DLC on the 3DS unless you have a new model. As such, I'm not considering this to be proof that the Ice Climbers are out of the question at all.

Again though, this is all beside the point here. I'm not asking what your opinion on the thought is, I'm simply asking anyone with the kind of knowledge this would entail how possible the idea would truly be.

 

[henn64]

Don't see why not since rosalina and puma are in the game and there is no slowdown when there are 4 of them on screen at once.

But Luma isn't a full AI character, it's really just an extension of Rosalina that has almost no pathfinding skills and will run into a wall if it's between it and Rosa.
Nana can actually act on her own when far enough away, and her level corresponds to your percentage when played by a human.
And FWI guys, Nana alone has 4,628 (4,610 for Popo) polys, Luma alone has 1,358. Now imagine Both ICs scaled up to Wii U polycount*8, because if they can't all run stable 8 player in Wii U/4 in 3DS they'll never get in.

 

[duffmmann]

But Luma isn't a full AI character, it's really just an extension of Rosalina that has almost no pathfinding skills and will run into a wall if it's between it and Rosa.
Nana can actually act on her own when far enough away, and her level corresponds to your percentage when played by a human.
And FWI guys, Nana alone has 4,628 polys, Luma alone has 1,358. Now imagine Both ICs scaled up to Wii U polycount*8, because if they can't all run stable 8 player in Wii U/4 in 3DS they'll never get in.

Pretty sure they did confirm that 8 Ice Climbers in Smash on the Wii U ran without issue. It was 4 of them on the 3DS that yielded issues.

Personally, I think they probably could have gotten them properly running on an O3DS if they worked hard enough on them, and altered their code enough to yield the same effects, just achieved on a technical level in a different way. Even if that isn't the case, I really do think the N3DS would be powerful enough to do this. I mean surely the N3DS is at least just as powerful as the Gamecube, if not more (please correct me if that line of thought is wrong), and if Melee could handle 4 Ice Climbers, then surely the N3DS could.

 

[henn64]

Pretty sure they did confirm that 8 Ice Climbers in Smash on the Wii U ran without issue. It was 4 of them on the 3DS that yielded issues.

Personally, I think they probably could have gotten them properly running on an O3DS if they worked hard enough on them, and altered their code enough to yield the same effects, just achieved on a technical level in a different way. Even if that isn't the case, I really do think the N3DS would be powerful enough to do this. I mean surely the N3DS is at least just as powerful as the Gamecube, if not more (please correct me if that line of thought is wrong), and if Melee could handle 4 Ice Climbers, then surely the N3DS could.

The 3DS was at 100% already and still slows down here or there. I mean, there wasn't even a 1.5x speed because it couldn't take it.
It couldn't even handle the CPP!

 

[duffmmann]

The 3DS was at 100% already and still slows down here or there. I mean, there wasn't even a 1.5x speed because it couldn't take it.
It couldn't even handle the CPP!

Right, but I'm talking about N3DS models, not the O3DS, which Smash for the 3DS was built around since the N3DS wasn't even out yet (outside of Japan) when Smash was released.

 

[RustInPeace]

I didn't really like Ice Climbers, more on facing them. I found them to be annoying. I tried them out for the sake of doing accomplishments on Brawl, and, they were alright. I didn't really miss them when Smash 4 came out. Enough time has passed that I could stand them being brought back.

 

[henn64]

I think they probably could have gotten them properly running on an O3DS if they worked hard enough on them, and altered their code enough to yield the same effects, just achieved on a technical level in a different way. Even if that isn't the case, I really do think the N3DS would be powerful enough to do this. I mean surely the N3DS is at least just as powerful as the Gamecube, if not more (please correct me if that line of thought is wrong), and if Melee could handle 4 Ice Climbers, then surely the N3DS could.

Sorry, this is what I was addressing. Oh, and ICs in Melee had an even lower poly count and didn't have the same stages/effects/characters that the 3DS version had going on.

Right, but I'm talking about N3DS models, not the O3DS, which Smash for the 3DS was built around since the N3DS wasn't even out yet (outside of Japan) when Smash was released.

Release dates are a bit irrelevant considering the N3DS was created during Sm4sh's development period.

 

[duffmmann]

Sorry, this is what I was addressing. Oh, and ICs in Melee had an even lower poly count and didn't have the same stages/effects/characters that the 3DS version had going on.

Release dates are a bit irrelevant considering the N3DS was created during Sm4sh's development period.

True, but you know what I mean, the game likely started its production before the N3DS' development started, as such while N3DS features were added (c-stick smash attacks and built in Amiibo scanning) these were probably very easy things to add in, as opposed to being made specifically to take full advantage of the N3DS' faster processing power like what we saw in the Xenoblade Chronicles 3D port.

 

[henn64]

True, but you know what I mean, the game likely started its production before the N3DS' development started, as such while N3DS features were added (c-stick smash attacks and built in Amiibo scanning) these were probably very easy things to add in, as opposed to being made specifically to take full advantage of the N3DS' faster processing power like what we saw in the Xenoblade Chronicles 3D port.

Ah, OK. As you probably know, it does forgo the EMM (that reboot into Extended Memory Mode) the O3DS needed to boot.
For comparison's sake:
O3DS ~ PS2
N3DS < Wii
I still disagree though, because at this point the CPU would be taken care of but GPU on the other hand was still unchanged. While the AI will cope fine, polycount is the PICA's territory.

 

[Tomy Sakazaki]

Even if it's technically possible to add the Ice Climbers on Smash4 for 3DS and get it running properly on N3DS hardware it's not a good commercial choice.
Limiting fighters to a console variation isn't - commercially speaking - the same thing as limiting arenas to one console or another.

 

[shinyquagsire23]

The 3DS was at 100% already and still slows down here or there. I mean, there wasn't even a 1.5x speed because it couldn't take it.
It couldn't even handle the CPP!

Er, I'm pretty sure it could tbh, but they left it out to market the N3DS. I still need to test this one of these days but the module is loaded regardless and N3DS uses the same commands as the CPP to get the values for it.

 

[duffmmann]

Even if it's technically possible to add the Ice Climbers on Smash4 for 3DS and get it running properly on N3DS hardware it's not a good commercial choice.
Limiting fighters to a console variation isn't - commercially speaking - the same thing as limiting arenas to one console or another.

This line of reasoning really doesn't make sense, but I get where its coming from. First, keep in mind what we're talking about here, a $3 piece of DLC. If Nintendo had no issue releasing Xenoblade Chronicles 3D exclusively for the N3DS (a full priced game), then one specific piece of DLC for one game isn't going to deter such a decision (especially when its counter version on the Wii U would get that same DLC and could be downloaded on any Wii U). Furthermore, with Smash being the big game that it is, an exclusive piece of DLC like that could actually help drive more sales for the N3DS than a title like Xenoblade 3D ever did (not that Xenoblade is a bad game, I think its great, its just that the first title didn't have a particularly huge fanbase). PLUS, why release the N3DS that can achieve more than the old models, if they aren't even going to take advantage of the extra power when they can? This idea that the N3DS should exist, but shouldn't receive exclusive games or content is so baffling to me. If that was truly Nintendo's point of view then they should have just released the N3DS with all the features it already has (c-stick, built in amiibo reading, auto power management, etc), but with no adjustments made to its processing power at all.