Homebrew Do you think a PS1/PSX emulator would be possible?

[Thirty3Three]

What in the world does that have to do with this topic. XD.

People were talking about it! Just thought I'd let others know

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how does the 3ds compare to the Dreamcast? the 3ds is stronger no doubt about it
so how did the Dreamcast emulate the ps1 so good? i could be clueless about their architecture so i don't really know

Mmmmm...

 

[xdarkmario]

1. why does anyone EVEN compare a handheld console to a Home console, totally different architectures.
2.although the PSP is in my opinion the Best portable emulation machine besides android out there, i have had COUNTLESS psp's, i had like 2 of every model. and i loved the psp but it is indeed outdated. and i have all but 1 psp 1000 left, but i dont want to be carrying all that again. I'm the type of man that likes to have 1 super system. back in the day my psp was my primary system with every emulator i can install. but now i have and love my N3ds i want this to be my super system. luckily nintendo is pretty good at making backwards compatibility most of the time so yea...

 

[DutchyDutch]

After doing some testing with what is currently implemented (primarily just the CPU core), playable speeds may be possible on Old3DS. Theoretically depends on the game at this point and how many instructions make up that particular game's game loop. If the game only needs < 25% CPU time before requesting VBlank sync, then it'd be pretty playable (but still somewhat laggy). Haven't test on new 3DS yet (which i have much higher hopes for).

EDIT: new 3DS is significantly faster, but still not as fast as I'd like

Very good to hear!

Is there a demo we could try out? Would be really cool to see something running, even if it's <2 fps.

 

[accc]

It would be cool if the 3DS could emulate the PSX with 3D support, but I think I read somewhere that stereoscopic 3D is impossible to implement in PSX emulation because the hardware lacks a Z-buffer or something. It's possible to emulate N64 games in 3D but getting N64 to run at playable speeds on the 3DS is a total pipe dream.

 

[gbaboy123]

i think the 3ds is more powerful than the gamecube because its newer and has cores but the 3ds has a problem the 3ds has more power if it uses the 2 cores or in the of new 3ds the 4 cores but when it comes to emulation the 3ds its not like the pc emulators that uses cores in case of the dolphin so you need a master programmer to make it run and make the use of the 2 cores or 4 cores. the way I see it you could make even a n64 emulator run on new 3ds but the thing is at this point its not about power its about a programmer making it happen an example its the vc roms any virtual console game on your console its being emulated in the case of wii n64 vc roms or in the case of the nes game on your 3ds or gba games on ambassador 3ds so the best shot we have its that we get a programmer that can get this working like a boss or we wait that Nintendo releases n64vc games on new 3ds and then we just need to inject games into the n64vc for 3ds like we do with the gba ones or the nes ones that's my theory and my opinion what does this have to do with ps1 its the same thing we either need a good programmer that can make ps1 games run on 3ds at full speed or we need ps1 vc games to make the injection and all that witch is probably never happening so I think its not about power but about who makes it. like 3ds its more powerful than psp and psp could run really laggy n64 games probably new 3ds its like 3 time more powerful so we should forget power in the case of ps1 or n64 emulation my opinion only

 

[Satan2k]

Or it could see improvements if coded efficiently as seen with the PS2 emulator for PC.


Uh, you mean 96MB RAM available right? 64MB is only one die, not the amount the 3DS regularly has access to.


In comparison to the old 3DS which is on par with the Gamecube in CPU power. It can't hold a candle to the New 3DS.


Again, the Wii had 88MB, the old 3DS has 96MB and the New 3DS has 192MB.


While I don't deny possible set backs such as pallet/texture issues and such expressed by some coders who have worked on the Pica200 here. It has been stated numerous times by developers that the Pica200 is the more powerful of the two.

I expect mostly good coverage of PS1 emulation and I too am surprised nobody has yet atleast slapped together an emulator as a test yet. It's N64 I'm doubting since we're dealing with hardware not much stronger than the GCN with ARM architecture/instruction set. The New 3DS should guarantee complete coverage of the PS1 library with it's faster Singlethreading capabilities and increased core-set(assuming it's coded correctly, ofc).


Since the 3DS is around the GC, architecture would really be the only set back.

Right, 96MB, i forgot nintendo gave alittle more space for the devs. Initially it as 64. I disagree on some facts about the PICA200 being on par with gamecube GPU. And i don't get why you brought the gamecube on topic, since I talked about WiiSX on the Wii : i don't see any good PSX emulator on the gamecube : gcsx never gone further than the proof of concept.

OK the pica 200 handle shaders that didn't event existed on the gamecube GPU (it was using GX special shading language but really poor in comparison), so yes it can achieve nicer lightings and texture effects, BUT its raw horsepower; the fillrate is lower.

Gamecube side was estimated on 600MPixels with one pipe you could use 2 but let's get honest, not multiply by two and let's assume it reach on best case ~900Mpixels/sec peak, the pica200 clocked at 200 Mhz is at 800Mpixels/sec peak. And for the emulation, it's not the shaders that matters.

BUT, forget about that, since the fillrate won't be a problem because the resolution is lower. And, i said on my first topic that the PICA200 was the good side.

The real downside is the rather low CPU.

The ARM core present on the 3DS is really not enough... And moreover we only get one core on user mode...

Prove me i'm wrong, I challenge you to do so. But I'm pretty sure I'm not. I'm following the scene for more than 10 years (dreamcast / nds / gamecube / wii / 3DS and wii U) and i highly doubt we'll have the perfect PSX emulator that everyone is waiting for. We'll pretty much get some nice proof of concept but nothing close of the emulation we can already have on PC / high end android tablets / ...)

Let's face the history :
Dreamcast : bleamcast -> Commercial product / very low compatibility despite sharing some base processor wide -> garbage
Gamecube : gcsx -> POC / No menu / no CDXA / Low compatiblity -> Garbage
Wii : WiiSX -> fairly good compatibility but unfinished business -> best one we ever had but miles away from other devices. (personnaly, I never achieved to run mednafen on my wii)

I highly doubt of a polished homebrew, but I'm still ready for someone to shut my mouth with a nice demo.

 

[hippy dave]

i think the 3ds is more powerful than the gamecube because its newer and has cores but the 3ds has a problem the 3ds has more power if it uses the 2 cores or in the of new 3ds the 4 cores but when it comes to emulation the 3ds its not like the pc emulators that uses cores in case of the dolphin so you need a master programmer to make it run and make the use of the 2 cores or 4 cores. the way I see it you could make even a n64 emulator run on new 3ds but the thing is at this point its not about power its about a programmer making it happen an example its the vc roms any virtual console game on your console its being emulated in the case of wii n64 vc roms or in the case of the nes game on your 3ds or gba games on ambassador 3ds so the best shot we have its that we get a programmer that can get this working like a boss or we wait that Nintendo releases n64vc games on new 3ds and then we just need to inject games into the n64vc for 3ds like we do with the gba ones or the nes ones that's my theory and my opinion what does this have to do with ps1 its the same thing we either need a good programmer that can make ps1 games run on 3ds at full speed or we need ps1 vc games to make the injection and all that witch is probably never happening so I think its not about power but about who makes it. like 3ds its more powerful than psp and psp could run really laggy n64 games probably new 3ds its like 3 time more powerful so we should forget power in the case of ps1 or n64 emulation my opinion only

PUNCTUfuckingATION jesus christ.

 

[machinamentum]

Very good to hear!

Is there a demo we could try out? Would be really cool to see something running, even if it's <2 fps.

You're welcome to download the source from my GitHub, but it'll just load a BIOS from the SD card and show a disassembly of it in memory. You could run the BIOS code but at a certain point, the official BIOS clears out nearly all 2MB of its memory mapped RAM and this is SLOW. So slow in fact that I almost need to implement a dynamic recompiler for the sake of not having to wait for it to zero out RAM.

EDIT: decided it's worth patching the BIOS to avoid these long execution times, so latest commits will automatically patch certain parts of the psx kernel at runtime.

Other than that, there's virtually no GPU/graphics code implemented so there would be nothing interesting to see.

 

[love77]

CPU clock of new 3ds is not enough for emulating PSX, I think.

 

[Selim873]

You're welcome to download the source from my GitHub, but it'll just load a BIOS from the SD card and show a disassembly of it in memory. You could run the BIOS code but at a certain point, the official BIOS clears out nearly all 2MB of its memory mapped RAM and this is SLOW. So slow in fact that I almost need to implement a dynamic recompiler for the sake of not having to wait for it to zero out RAM.

EDIT: decided it's worth patching the BIOS to avoid these long execution times, so latest commits will automatically patch certain parts of the psx kernel at runtime.

Other than that, there's virtually no GPU/graphics code implemented so there would be nothing interesting to see.

I was going to ask about the interpreter! A few posts back, though, you did say in theory there would be decent speed, but I honestly didn't want to believe that through an interpreter. lol

 

[Selim873]

You're welcome to download the source from my GitHub, but it'll just load a BIOS from the SD card and show a disassembly of it in memory. You could run the BIOS code but at a certain point, the official BIOS clears out nearly all 2MB of its memory mapped RAM and this is SLOW. So slow in fact that I almost need to implement a dynamic recompiler for the sake of not having to wait for it to zero out RAM.

EDIT: decided it's worth patching the BIOS to avoid these long execution times, so latest commits will automatically patch certain parts of the psx kernel at runtime.

Other than that, there's virtually no GPU/graphics code implemented so there would be nothing interesting to see.

I was going to ask about the interpreter! A few posts back, though, you did say in theory there would be decent speed, but I honestly didn't want to believe that through an interpreter. lol

 

[Skull Kiddo]

It's possible however I don't think it will run at full speed. Yes PSP could emulate PS1 but IIRC it had a CPU similar to PS1 so Sony could underclock it or something like that to achieve PS1 emulation. I may be wrong though.

 

[del_delly]

It's possible however I don't think it will run at full speed. Yes PSP could emulate PS1 but IIRC it had a CPU similar to PS1 so Sony could underclock it or something like that to achieve PS1 emulation. I may be wrong though.

PSP had the luxury of having a working emulator in the system in the first place. Sony made one, for their digital shop, and it just works.
Just like if we get a homebrew for running injection, we got emulators for several systems already.

What will most likely happen is that somebody will attempt to port over a already existing emulator, which won't run because it has retarded system requirements, or will only games that works on that emu's speedhacks.

 

[TecXero]

i think the 3ds is more powerful than the gamecube because its newer and has cores but the 3ds has a problem the 3ds has more power if it uses the 2 cores or in the of new 3ds the 4 cores but when it comes to emulation the 3ds its not like the pc emulators that uses cores in case of the dolphin so you need a master programmer to make it run and make the use of the 2 cores or 4 cores. the way I see it you could make even a n64 emulator run on new 3ds but the thing is at this point its not about power its about a programmer making it happen an example its the vc roms any virtual console game on your console its being emulated in the case of wii n64 vc roms or in the case of the nes game on your 3ds or gba games on ambassador 3ds so the best shot we have its that we get a programmer that can get this working like a boss or we wait that Nintendo releases n64vc games on new 3ds and then we just need to inject games into the n64vc for 3ds like we do with the gba ones or the nes ones that's my theory and my opinion what does this have to do with ps1 its the same thing we either need a good programmer that can make ps1 games run on 3ds at full speed or we need ps1 vc games to make the injection and all that witch is probably never happening so I think its not about power but about who makes it. like 3ds its more powerful than psp and psp could run really laggy n64 games probably new 3ds its like 3 time more powerful so we should forget power in the case of ps1 or n64 emulation my opinion only

That was a painful read. It will be a while before we can fully utilize both cores. Even then, more cores don't necessarily benefit emulators. It's hard to split up emulated code among different cores without it becoming unstable. The audio could probably be offloaded to another core, but probably not much else. Also, ARM tends to be used by handhelds and mobiles due to how power efficient it is, for better battery life. That doesn't make it better than the GameCube's PPC CPU or really worse, either. That's like comparing apples and oranges.

The main bottleneck higher end emulation on the 3DS will face is the CPU, even on the N3DS. The N3DS does have a more powerful CPU, but it's still using an ARM architecture. Consoles like the PS1 and N64 used some form of MIPS, which the PSP also had a MIPS architecture, giving it an advantage on that front. Now, that said, the 3DS and N3DS are using a more advanced architecture (doesn't always mean more raw power), so, once the 3DS is completely opened up and well documented, someone could probably take a lot of time and effort to make a decent PS1 emulator. I doubt it would compare to the PSP's POPS, though.

EDIT: I also wouldn't compare VC to homebrew emulators. Developers licensed by Nintendo to develop the VC emulators are going to have access to resources (documentation, toolchains, proprietary nonsense, etc) that homebrew developers don't. Also, those licensed developers are doing that as a full job, unlike homebrew developers who are probably doing it as a hobby or for experience.

 

[DutchyDutch]

I think the first bootable game will probaly run at a whopping 2 frames per second, glitched or none at all textures, and no sound.

 

[nooby89]

The Wii can emulate the PS1 and N64
But, PS1 can not emulate by the 3DS but N64 yes
The question is when ???

 

[The Real Jdbye]

The Wii can emulate the PS1 and N64
But, PS1 can not emulate by the 3DS but N64 yes
The question is when ???

N64 is harder to emulate than the PSX.

 

[nooby89]

N64 is harder to emulate than the PSX.

but it may be more realistic for the n64 games make some mo while ps games are plsuieur gig

And if someone starts a background in his spare time he may well

 

[william341]

but it may be more realistic for the n64 games make some mo while ps games are plsuieur gig

And if someone starts a background in his spare time he may well

i have many questions.

 

[nooby89]

i have many questions.

Sorry for the error, i mixed french and english in the same sentence