do you belive theres a after life

[TheDarkGreninja]

So at what time did time begin? See, time is change.

Time began around 14 billion years ago. I'm not so sure what was so difficult about that question.

So what makes it "outside" our Universe?

Being completely outside of our universe would me to not have any of the same rules apply, and if anything have no rules apply, thus allowing God to be something we are unable to understand outside of the basic concept that he would be omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent etc.

merely didn't differentiate until later.

Could you explain what you mean by this?

How can God change but not die?

What do you mean by God changing? If you mean in the sense of entropy as you had mentioned earlier, it wouldn't apply to him as none of the universe's properties would apply to him. If anything you could suggest that God is in a vacuum without anything but himself, something definitely beyond us.

We don't say unicorns exist, for example.

I'd say that's a false equivalence, seeing as how, if a Unicorn were to be within our universe many things would apply to it that would rule out it's existence, in comparison to God who would have none of those things apply to it.

 

[kuwanger]

Time began around 14 billion years ago. I'm not so sure what was so difficult about that question.

So before that time didn't exist. So, give at least part of time is change, what didn't change that caused the Big Bang to occur?

Being completely outside of our universe would me to not have any of the same rules apply, and if anything have no rules apply, thus allowing God to be something we are unable to understand outside of the basic concept that he would be omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent etc.

Being outside the universe, we wouldn't be able to understand he does exist either.

Could you explain what you mean by this?

Before the Big Bang "happened" everything was in the Big Bang. It was the Universe. If you believe in Determinism, then everything that followed was a byproduct of that initial state with no deviation. So, the evolution of time in the Universe is merely the differentiation/increased entropy of matter/energy. Taken down to the resolution of Planck time and you have conceptually a [in]finite number of 3D frames that make up the Universe.

What do you mean by God changing? If you mean in the sense of entropy as you had mentioned earlier, it wouldn't apply to him as none of the universe's properties would apply to him. If anything you could suggest that God is in a vacuum without anything but himself, something definitely beyond us.

I mean change as in change. For God to act, he has to change. If God acted simultaneously in the creation and all his interactions in the universe in all the individual frames of the universe, there's no real differentiation between his actions and nothingness except the potentially measurable differentiation from the expected norms. At that level, though, his actions are merely an illusion (which is in the same scope as time and consciousness being illusions based upon perception).

I'd say that's a false equivalence, seeing as how, if a Unicorn were to be within our universe many things would apply to it that would rule out it's existence, in comparison to God who would have none of those things apply to it.

Whatever miraculous property that allows God to interact with our universe would apply equally to unicorns because unicorns could be a creation of God (or vice versa). We don't believe in unicorns because we haven't been indoctrinated to believe in unicorns and so we attempt to apply rules of evidence in our Universe to discount them.

 

[DaFixer]

Yep Beer,women,beer and more women

But no I don't belive in a life after my life.
When my life ends, I hope it for good.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

So before that time didn't exist. So, give at least part of time is change, what didn't change that caused the Big Bang to occur?

Something, what that something is up for debate.

Being outside the universe, we wouldn't be able to understand he does exist either.

Definitely, and that's where religion and each religion's various "proofs" come into play as well. But I'd rather stick to just the possibility of God existing being not completely out of this world (and at least making sense.)

I mean change as in change. For God to act, he has to change. If God acted simultaneously in the creation and all his interactions in the universe in all the individual frames of the universe, there's no real differentiation between his actions and nothingness except the potentially measurable differentiation from the expected norms. At that level, though, his actions are merely an illusion (which is in the same scope as time and consciousness being illusions based upon perception).

Ah, that makes a lot more sense, thanks.
I'd say God is much like a programmer, in that once the code has been executed he essentially just observes it continue and perform certain instructions at certain times, thus he never interacts then and there but rather planned for those interactions to occur.

Whatever miraculous property that allows God to interact with our universe would apply equally to unicorns because unicorns could be a creation of God (or vice versa). We don't believe in unicorns because we haven't been indoctrinated to believe in unicorns and so we attempt to apply rules of evidence in our Universe to discount them.

As said above, God never truly interacts with the universe directly, what would be interactions were just planned events that would occur at certain points in time.

 

[Fates-Blade-900]

Yeah, there's a Heaven that is more organized then the Dancing Moons of Saturn,
which means it is the most beautiful thing ever, also this universe is WAY to perfectly
tweaked for there to not to be a creator, everything and everyone is in JUST the right
place, at JUST the right time, like everywhere, that is amazing, and of course we have
the Eclipses that we can see, so perfectly made for us humans, amazing, even THOSE
don't scratch the surface of what Heaven is like.

 

[Peloisan]

The soul incarnate the body to experience and learn, and for some to help others, when the body dies, the soul goes to area to rest before choosing what to do next.
do some reseach, some many fear producing crap bomb barding us every day, so many made up half truths, fake news, it's no wonder people don't believe.

 

[ken28]

I don't really reject the idea of afterlife, nor do I say for certain that there is one.
No real set in stone way to know without kicking the bucket. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

or like someone once said, "if there is a afterlife it must be really nice there, after all no one came back from it yet. besides jesus but he is god sons so who knows "

 

[osm70]

Something, what that something is up for debate.



Definitely, and that's where religion and each religion's various "proofs" come into play as well. But I'd rather stick to just the possibility of God existing being not completely out of this world (and at least making sense.)



Ah, that makes a lot more sense, thanks.
I'd say God is much like a programmer, in that once the code has been executed he essentially just observes it continue and perform certain instructions at certain times, thus he never interacts then and there but rather planned for those interactions to occur.



As said above, God never truly interacts with the universe directly, what would be interactions were just planned events that would occur at certain points in time.

God never interacts with the universe.

So, are you saying praying is pointless?

 

[osaka35]

I do not. No evidence, and faith is a requirement. That's a deal-breaker for me.

 

[ken28]

Statiscally it's better to believe in God.

Case 1 he exist.
If you believed your are fine if not you have a problem.

Case 2 he doesn't.
In either case nothing will happen.

Hence better belive in case case 1 is true xD

 

[osm70]

Statiscally it's better to believe in God.

Case 1 he exist.
If you believed your are fine if not you have a problem.

Case 2 he doesn't.
In either case nothing will happen.

Hence better belive in case case 1 is true xD

A few problems with that:

1. You can't choose what you believe. Go ahead and try believing that Australia doesn't exist. Yeah, you can't.

2. What if you believe in the Christian god, but it turns out the god of Islam is the real one? (Or Budha, or the Jewish god, or whatever.) You can't possibly believe in all of them. Do you consider yourself lucky enough to believe the right one?

3. Believing in a god usually requires some devotion. Most religions say that your belief doesn't matter if you don't pray. So, if Case 2 is true, you just wasted a lot of time.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

God never interacts with the universe.

So, are you saying praying is pointless?

No. God would no beforehand who would pray and therefore would help those people benefit ny that "programming" as initially described.

After all, whether or not God exists, Free will is a complete illusion so God doesn't need to worry about someone deciding to pray.

 

[osm70]

No. God would no beforehand who would pray and therefore would help those people benefit ny that "programming" as initially described.

After all, whether or not God exists, Free will is a complete illusion so God doesn't need to worry about someone deciding to pray.

Since we are talking about programming...

He could also do this:

while (true) { //start of a loop that loops infinity times
Thread.sleep(n); //wait n nanoseconds (probably a lot)
if (person.prayed==true) { //if person prayed
person.help(); //help person
} //end of if
person.prayed=false; //force the person to pray again to get more help in the next loop
} //end of loop

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Since we are talking about programming...

He could also do this:

while (true) { //start of a loop that loops infinity times
Thread.sleep(n); //wait n nanoseconds (probably a lot)
if (person.prayed==true) { //if person prayed
person.help(); //help person
} //end of if
person.prayed=false; //force the person to pray again to get more help in the next loop
} //end of loop

He could, but then the illusion of free will is completely lost. At that point, living completely loses meaning in the religious sense. It has to feel like a choice, rather than something forced.

 

[D34DL1N3R]

Yeah, there's a Heaven that is more organized then the Dancing Moons of Saturn,
which means it is the most beautiful thing ever, also this universe is WAY to perfectly
tweaked for there to not to be a creator, everything and everyone is in JUST the right
place, at JUST the right time, like everywhere, that is amazing, and of course we have
the Eclipses that we can see, so perfectly made for us humans, amazing, even THOSE
don't scratch the surface of what Heaven is like.

So you're saying that everyone has a plan according to God? That everything is part of "His" plan, and that everything has a predetermined role?

 

[osm70]

He could, but then the illusion of free will is completely lost. At that point, living completely loses meaning in the religious sense. It has to feel like a choice, rather than something forced.

Not unless you don't know that's how it works.

Also, what is a free will, anyway? Even if we ignore all of the neuroscience and all that, it still doesn't work.

There are only two possible reasons you do anything.

1. You are forced to

2. You want to

1 clearly isn't free will, so let's get right to 2. You will never willingly do anything you don't want to. (Yeah, yeah, you can do something you don't want to do, but you are doing it because of a different "want".) The thing is, you can't control what you want. (Go ahead and try wanting to punch the next person you see in the face. No, I'm not telling you to do it, I am telling you to WANT to do it. You can't, right?)

In conclusion, the only reason you do anything is because of something you can't control.

 

[bitjacker]

When you die, You still hear for a few minutes until your brain dies completely. Often to the nasty sound of medical equipment buzzing.
Have fun.
Then it all goes black. You don't feel it. You don't know it. The life you lived left a carbon footprint. You put plastic into the landfill ya fuckin jerk.
Oh and no one plays the harp for you.

 

[osaka35]

Statiscally it's better to believe in God.

Case 1 he exist.
If you believed your are fine if not you have a problem.

Case 2 he doesn't.
In either case nothing will happen.

Hence better belive in case case 1 is true xD

The presumption between these two cases is the resulting personal state of mind and actions are the same, only the belief varies. This thinking is flawed; those who rely on faith to make determinations of reality will behave and understand reality differently. Since our goal is to try and suss out how reality actually is, we shouldn't be using personal consequences to determine the likelihood of something being real or not. "Pascal's Wager", which is what you're presenting here, and has other problems as well. This is just my personal problem with it Or, put another way, "It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan

but if we're talking about personal consequences determining if we should believe or not, I prefer:

Case 1 he exist:
Accept him or suffer?he created hell to make you suffer for not worshiping him. Not worthy of respect or appreciation. Be a good person or you'll be punished.

Case 2 he doesn't exist:
this life is the only one you have and you are responsible to only yourself and those lives you impact. make your life count and don't be a dick to anyone, because it's the personally responsible choice.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Not unless you don't know that's how it works.

Also, what is a free will, anyway? Even if we ignore all of the neuroscience and all that, it still doesn't work.

There are only two possible reasons you do anything.

1. You are forced to

2. You want to

1 clearly isn't free will, so let's get right to 2. You will never willingly do anything you don't want to. (Yeah, yeah, you can do something you don't want to do, but you are doing it because of a different "want".) The thing is, you can't control what you want. (Go ahead and try wanting to punch the next person you see in the face. No, I'm not telling you to do it, I am telling you to WANT to do it. You can't, right?)

In conclusion, the only reason you do anything is because of something you can't control.

Not disagreeing.

 

[osaka35]

Not unless you don't know that's how it works.

Also, what is a free will, anyway? Even if we ignore all of the neuroscience and all that, it still doesn't work.

There are only two possible reasons you do anything.

1. You are forced to

2. You want to

1 clearly isn't free will, so let's get right to 2. You will never willingly do anything you don't want to. (Yeah, yeah, you can do something you don't want to do, but you are doing it because of a different "want".) The thing is, you can't control what you want. (Go ahead and try wanting to punch the next person you see in the face. No, I'm not telling you to do it, I am telling you to WANT to do it. You can't, right?)

In conclusion, the only reason you do anything is because of something you can't control.

In the same way you can't think without your brain. "The future is predetermine by those who shape it", if you will. Whether you have free will or not, you have the perception of free will. And so I'd say the reason you do anything is because it makes sense to you. You are true to yourself and your understanding of the world around you. Change your perception, change your understanding, and change the flow of your decisions.