Do PS1 games have more lag than in the PS2?

Donnie-Burger

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I've read PS1 games have more lag in the PS3 than in the PS2. If so, POPStarter might have an advantage over PS3 even though it's less compatible, IIRC.

Also, it looks like even PS1 Classics have lag in the PS3.
I have whole set in bin. cue so dont have to worry about the other formats and butter smooth on ps3.
 
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Donnie-Burger

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Is this lag as a result of HDMI or the actual emulator?

I ask because if it’s the former then I’d check the TV settings as there may be ways to reduce this e.g. ‘gaming mode’.

Note for anyone considering the composite/component on PS3 for PS1:
https://www.retrorgb.com/playstation3.html
Game mode on many tvs does create lag.
 

Latiodile

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Is this lag as a result of HDMI or the actual emulator?

I ask because if it’s the former then I’d check the TV settings as there may be ways to reduce this e.g. ‘gaming mode’.

Note for anyone considering the composite/component on PS3 for PS1:
https://www.retrorgb.com/playstation3.html
gaming mode isn't the be all end all of lag with some TVs, i have one where the gaming mode actually makes things lag more "for the sake of image quality"
 

tech3475

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Game mode on many tvs does create lag.
gaming mode isn't the be all end all of lag with some TVs, i have one where the gaming mode actually makes things lag more "for the sake of image quality"

I’ve never used/tested it so I can’t say, this was just something I heard about years ago, personally I’ve never had issues playing PS1 games on my PS3…..but then I’m from a PAL region so I’m used to the **** version of PS1 games ;) .
 
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Windows_10_User

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I have whole set in bin. cue so dont have to worry about the other formats and butter smooth on ps3.

I thought PSOne Classics were better since they were made for the PS1. So, PS1 CUE/BIN games don't lag on the PS3?

Is this lag as a result of HDMI or the actual emulator?

I ask because if it’s the former then I’d check the TV settings as there may be ways to reduce this e.g. ‘gaming mode’.

Note for anyone considering the composite/component on PS3 for PS1:
https://www.retrorgb.com/playstation3.html

If it has to do with HDMI then there's a problem since I don't want to use composite/component cables just for playing PS1 games.

Game mode on many tvs does create lag.

What about those TVs that don't even have it?

@Latiodile, I find it odd that it creates lag.

I’ve never used/tested it so I can’t say, this was just something I heard about years ago, personally I’ve never had issues playing PS1 games on my PS3…..but then I’m from a PAL region so I’m used to the **** version of PS1 games ;) .

I'm too so does that mean the lag is normal? May problems arise if playing NTSC PS1/PS2 games in a PAL TV and a PAL PS3?
 
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Donnie-Burger

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I thought PS1 Classics were better since they were made for the PS1. So, PS1 .cue/.bin don't have lag in the PS3?



If it has to do with HDMI then there's a problem since I don't want to use composite/component just for playing PS1 games.



What about those TVs that don't even have it?



I'm too so does that mean the lag is normal? May one have problems if playing NTSC PS1/PS2 games in a PAL TV and a PAL PS3?
No lag that I have noticed USA set. IF the tv doesnt have game mode then you should be fine unless its an old lcd with high MS response time of like say 8 or higher.
 
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Windows_10_User

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No lag that I have noticed USA set. IF the tv doesnt have game mode then you should be fine unless its an old lcd with high MS response time of like say 8 or higher.

Why should I be fine if the TV doesn't have game mode? Can it actually increase lag, and if so, why? I thought its purpose was the opposite. My LCD is from 2009, IIRC, and I don't know its response time.
 
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appleburger

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I'm guessing this would be the case for PS3s which are running the native backwards compatibility for PS2. Emulation inherently comes with input delay, AFAIK, so that would make sense to me, since the PS1 compatibility was always software driven for PS3s.

As for input delay with the TV, this is a different mechanism at work, and you'll have that delay regardless of what's hooked up to the TV, because the image is being processed. It's not relevant to the PS1/PS2 point you mentioned.
 
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tech3475

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If it has to do with HDMI then there's a problem since I don't want to use composite/component just for playing PS1 games.

HDMI delay is just something I heard about and not properly tested myself, typically I don't have any issues unless I doing something like USB capture or some kind of adapter which introduces delay (i.e. not a normal setup).

The only time I've had any real issue I can recall is blue sphere from Sonic 3/&K, but that's more likely down more to me being used to PAL versions growing up and using the analogue stick instead of the dpad where split second reaction times can matter.

I'm too so does that mean the lag is normal? May one have problems if playing NTSC PS1/PS2 games in a PAL TV and a PAL PS3?

TBH this was meant more as a joke because in the past PAL copies would be slower on retro platforms, hence the winky face.
 

Windows_10_User

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I'm guessing this would be the case for PS3s which are running the native backwards compatibility for PS2. Emulation inherently comes with input delay, AFAIK, so that would make sense to me, since the PS1 compatibility was always software driven for PS3s.

As for input delay with the TV, this is a different mechanism at work, and you'll have that delay regardless of what's hooked up to the TV, because the image is being processed. It's not relevant to the PS1/PS2 point you mentioned.

So, there can be two types of input lag and at the same time and TVs will always have one of them?

HDMI delay is just something I heard about and not properly tested myself, typically I don't have any issues unless I doing something like USB capture or some kind of adapter which introduces delay (i.e. not a normal setup).

The only time I've had any real issue I can recall is blue sphere from Sonic 3/&K, but that's more likely down more to me being used to PAL versions growing up and using the analogue stick instead of the dpad where split second reaction times can matter.



TBH this was meant more as a joke because in the past PAL copies would be slower on retro platforms, hence the winky face.

According to this site, the framerate and audio slowdown has to do with playing NTSC PSOne Classics on a PAL PS3 compatible than the PS3.
 
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master801

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To answer the original question, yes, PS1 games most likely lag more on PS3 than PS2 (although not always the case).

This is because PS1 games on PS3 are emulated fully through software, and PS1 games on PS2 are partially emulated but has the PS1 CPU built into the motherboard (used as an I/O processor). The later models of the PS2 (slims) do not include a "dedicated" PS1 CPU. These models are generally worse at compatibility due to the IOP being emulated.

Now, if we're talking about loading backups through USB (PS2) or hard drive (PS3), then the PS3 is probably better than PS2. This is because the IOP in the PS2 will be fighting for bandwidth (pretty much everything is connected to the IOP). Not even mentioning the software limitation. POPStarter for the PS2 is based on the official PS1 emulator for PS2 (contains Sony copyrighted code), which is why it's very iffy to work with since it's a legal gray area.

tl;dr It depends on what media format you're using. PS2 fat is best with PS1 discs, PS3 is best for PS1 digital games.
 

Windows_10_User

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To answer the original question, yes, PS1 games most likely lag more on PS3 than PS2 (although not always the case).

This is because PS1 games on PS3 are emulated fully through software, and PS1 games on PS2 are partially emulated but has the PS1 CPU built into the motherboard (used as an I/O processor). The later models of the PS2 (slims) do not include a "dedicated" PS1 CPU. These models are generally worse at compatibility due to the IOP being emulated.

Now, if we're talking about loading backups through USB (PS2) or hard drive (PS3), then the PS3 is probably better than PS2. This is because the IOP in the PS2 will be fighting for bandwidth (pretty much everything is connected to the IOP). Not even mentioning the software limitation. POPStarter for the PS2 is based on the official PS1 emulator for PS2 (contains Sony copyrighted code), which is why it's very iffy to work with since it's a legal gray area.

tl;dr It depends on what media format you're using. PS2 fat is best with PS1 discs, PS3 is best for PS1 digital games.

I don't get why some PS2s may have problems with some PS2 discs. Do these problems affect the PS2 Slims more than the Fats'?

Unfortunately, I can't make POPStarter work via SMB.
 
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Marc_LFD

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I’ve never used/tested it so I can’t say, this was just something I heard about years ago, personally I’ve never had issues playing PS1 games on my PS3…..but then I’m from a PAL region so I’m used to the **** version of PS1 games ;) .
Tekken 3 PAL feels like it was set in space. So slow and unusual slow jumps. 😆
 
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ChiefReginod

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My understanding is that even though the PS2 has PS1 compatibility by hardware, the way Sony implemented Popstarter was via emulation. If this is true, then you're probably better off with the much better PS1 emulation on PS3. The only advantage a PS2 would have in this scenario would be its native 240p output, but that would only matter if you're playing on a CRT TV.

As said a few posts back, all emulation has some inherent lag. RetroArch's run-ahead is the only exception I know of.
 
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Acid_Snake

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PS3 has barely any input lag on PS1 or PS2, it's actually much better than PCSX2 on a NASA supercomputer.
How Sony managed to pull off ps2_netemu so well is beyond science fiction, not even the PS4 seems to be able to replicate this.
My guess is the lag you are seeing comes from somewhere else.
 

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