Dispute over (now) 8-year-old son's transition to a girl

[Burorī]

that kid definitely won't get bullied at school...

 

[chrisrlink]

from what i gather it's more not the boy's choice but the mother's i would sympathize if it was the boy's choice on his own with support by the parents compairing apples to oranges here but it sorrta reminds me of my ex "forcing me" to convert to islam for the sake of marriage (which never happened thank god) you shouldn't force anyone to do anything IF they don't want to

 

[PrincessLillie]

I sense a small amount of transphobia and misinformation emanating from this thread (unless I'm misinterpreting some of the other replies). Then again, I'm not sure what else I expected from the world news & politics section. I suppose I'll just drop my opinions and dip.
If the child is, indeed, transgender, I see no reason why the mother shouldn't proceed. Hormone blockers are perfectly harmless and can be reversed by simply stopping the usage of them (all they really do is "pause" puberty). Estrogen typically isn't administered until a little bit later in life, and surgeries usually aren't done until adulthood. Though, the evidence shown on both sides is pretty contradictory to each other and it's not exactly easy on my part to tell who's lying for their own benefit and who isn't, especially given these are only articles from news outlets and I have no further insight into the situation. In the end, the only way to truly tell which way is best for the child is if the child themself is given a voice in the situation. Even 8-year-olds are intelligent enough to understand when something is wrong with their gender identity and/or gender expression, and it's important that they're given the chance to voice such frustrations. Given the circumstances though, I have good reason to doubt they will be given a voice.
TL;DR: Only the child can know for sure if they're trans, even at 8 years old.

Slightly off-topic, but the rest of the content on LifeSite (second link in the OP) genuinely hurts to read. Definitely would not trust them.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

"not acting their birth gender" what does that even mean?. Facebook lists 58 gender options. How would you know?

edit: what's the matter Burorī, why edit your post?

I dunno, I'm not good at explaining this stuff.

 

[Soulsilve2010]

I'm all for letting people be who they feel they are, the only exception is really young children like this.They shouldn't be able to even start transitioning until they are at least 18.A LOT can change after puberty mentally.There's plenty of ways to live how you want without changing your body so transitioning doesn't need to take precedence to making sure someone is absolutely sure before taking the irreversible plunge.Some things can be reversed but the biggest one(the surgery) is for life.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

Here's my two cents.

If it was the boy's decision, that's a very dangerous decision and he's lying to himself but it was his choice and he's not hurting anyone else.
If it was the mother's decision, that's despicable.

 

[Asia81]

fuck this shit
thanos please kill us

 

[notimp]

If the child is, indeed, transgender, I see no reason why the mother shouldn't proceed. Hormone blockers are perfectly harmless and can be reversed by simply stopping the usage of them (all they really do is "pause" puberty). Estrogen typically isn't administered until a little bit later in life, and surgeries usually aren't done until adulthood

Hormone blockers are perfectly harmless. Well, yes, the kid might not have a growth spurt, no change of voice, recessed genetal development, and increased rates of suicidal thought and self harm, but apart from that nothing serious, really....

Stop the disinformation!

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-50046579

Again what is the proposed benefit of halting child development, over letting it develop and then decide later in life?

Its mostly cosmetic right? And why you should administer hormone blockers for ultimately a cosmetic benefit is beyond me. Yes having become a more beautiful (societies standards) transgener might be something that person would want later in life, but not having that shouldnt inflict high psychological distress.

So what are you taking the risk of a suppressed development (oh no - its just paused, seems unlikely in several aspects, if you have studies, please post and I'll read them) and higher risk of suicidal thoughts for?


edit: Ok proposed benefits are not 'breathing space' but maybe not having to undergo surgery later on in life:

The HRA said clinicians and researchers should "avoid referring to puberty suppressing as providing a 'breathing space' to avoid risk of misunderstanding".

Rather, the purpose of the treatment should be described as being offered to children demonstrating strong and persistent gender identity dysphoria "such that the suppression of puberty would allow subsequent cross-sex hormone treatment without the need to surgically reverse or otherwise mask the unwanted physical effects of puberty in the birth gender".

This refers to secondary sexual characteristics in women? Is there an equivalent operation that would not be needed for born males?

In clinical practice, several former Gids clinicians question whether people can accurately predict this pathway.

"That would mean Gids has accurate procedures that can differentiate between those whose gender dysphoria in childhood will desist and those for whom it will persist," one ex-Gids clinician, who wished to remain anonymous, told Newsnight.

"The service is not able to do this for a number of reasons, including the nature of the assessment process, research in this field is still lacking, and that the patient cohort has changed significantly in the last few years."

Evidence is also emerging that provides insights into whether puberty blockers are a treatment to help alleviate gender dysphoria, or if they're fundamentally part of the pathway to full medical or surgical transitioning.

"We were constantly told, and told to tell patients that the blockers provided a pause. There was no doubt that that is what we were saying," the former Gids clinician said.

Indeed, last year Dr Polly Carmichael's - director of Gids - team wrote in a journal: "Puberty suspension with GnRHa [puberty blockers] constitutes a treatment in its own right, meaning that it is not indicated purely as a preliminary stage before the next stage of treatment towards gender reassignment, namely gender-affirming cross-sex hormones."

Yet another study by the Dutch team this year found that treatment with puberty blockers "is described as an extended diagnostic phase" and that many transgender adolescents seem to experience them as the "first 'necessary' medical step of a seemingly indisputable trajectory with permanent physical changes (through gender affirming hormones and/or surgeries) in the end".

But as Newsnight has reported, there are methodological issues with many of these studies - they lack control groups and are often quite small. This limits what can be inferred from them.

While the evidence continues to emerge, debate will no doubt continue about use of puberty blockers in young people.

 

[Deleted User]

I assume it's about this story below.



That mother is a psycho. She has no idea what she's done to her son.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Even 8-year-olds are intelligent enough to understand when something is wrong with their gender identity and/or gender expression, and it's important that they're given the chance to voice such frustrations.

8-year-olds are people pleasers and immitators of their parents. That would explain his conflicting behavior around the father vs the around the mother. You can even turn 8-year-olds into Jihadis, for example. I had no idea about sex when I was 8. I wasn´t even sure about genitals, nor did I care. Even bringing up this question induces a lot of stress in the child and should be considered child abuse. Children cannot be left children anymore.

 

[Deleted User]

that kid definitely won't get bullied at school...

That's a problem, an even bigger one is when he grows up and realizes what his mother did to him.

 

[KingVamp]

Even if it was fully the child's idea or she completely means well, going to have to say no to this one. If gender or even outright sex was easily reversible, that would be a different story. At least then, the person would have a choice later on.

 

[omgcat]

Even if it was fully the child's idea or she completely means well, going to have to say no to this one. If gender or even outright sex was easily reversible, that would be a different story. At least then, the person would have a choice later on.

puberty blockers are well received by most people unless they have an allergy. you can put a pause on puberty and worry about which hormones the child will receive when they get to the proper age. this allows them time to talk with therapists and psychologists about options, feelings, gender dysphoria, body dysphoria, etc. if the child decides to not transition, it's no harm no foul, and they stop the puberty blockers. to even get the medications needed for any of this to occur, they need to be screened by licensed psychologists and therapists.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

puberty blockers are well received by most people unless they have an allergy. you can put a pause on puberty and worry about which hormones the child will receive when they get to the proper age. this allows them time to talk with therapists and psychologists about options, feelings, gender dysphoria, body dysphoria, etc. if the child decides to not transition, it's no harm no foul, and they stop the puberty blockers. to even get the medications needed for any of this to occur, they need to be screened by licensed psychologists and therapists.

Your body is a temple.

 

[omgcat]

Your body is a temple.

yes it is, and people can change it how they want. maybe a few new rooms, new coat of paint, maybe a new interior. It is THEIR body and they can make changes to it as they, and their team of trained medical professionals, see fit. religion has no place in this conversation, this is in science's domain.

 

[linuxares]

When I were 8, I were playing in the sandbox, with pinecones and my friends. I didn't care about my dingdong more than to pee.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

yes it is, and people can change it how they want. maybe a few new rooms, new coat of paint, maybe a new interior. It is THEIR body and they can make changes to it as they, and their team of trained medical professionals, see fit. religion has no place in this conversation, this is in science's domain.

Religion has a place in every conversation.

Even if it didn't, it doesn't change the fact that 41% of all t******** commit suicide.
EDIT: It really censored that.

 

[Darth Meteos]

Give them what? SRS? Then 10 years later they end up killing themselves? Sounds like a great plan...

Because, of course, they aren't suicidal because they're ostracized for their choice, but simply because of the choice. Makes sense! Genius!

Religion has a place in every conversation.

Yeah, the bin.

 

[Deleted User]

Given that:
1. Most transgender kids are the children of leftists.
2. Political beliefs are partially heritable.
3. Transgender people are far less likely to successfully reproduce.

Should we encourage leftists to trans their children?

 

[mightymuffy]

Apparently the father has to pay 5000$ a month.

Fuckin' hell, I'd have a sex change myself for that kind of money...

Aaanyway...

There is dispute whether the son actually wants to become a girl.

....and that is literally where this particular story should end! I would usually lean towards the 'wait until after puberty' argument myself, but then again kids aren't stupid: my 2 year old nephew started to point my mobile phone at my face to unlock it, then when I took that feature off, he then grabs my finger in an attempt to use the fingerprint unlock! 2 years old! I was trying to push building blocks up the cats arse when I was 2! But anyway... - if the child is not 100% sure then the whole idea is nonsensical: somebody should give the mother a giant slap..