Dispute over (now) 8-year-old son's transition to a girl

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UltraDolphinRevolution

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This case has been public for a few years now. The latest court decision overrides the previous one and it seems the mother will be able to go ahead with the transition of her son. Apparently the father has to pay 5000$ a month.
There is dispute whether the son actually wants to become a girl.

What is new to me is that the mother is not even the biological mother. She received the twin boys via egg donation.
What is your opinion on this case?

https://nypost.com/2019/10/23/texas...ng-to-stop-7-year-old-sons-gender-transition/
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/c...ansition-for-8-yr-old-regains-decision-rights

My theories are:
a) After the break-up the mother become jealous of the reproductive success of her former husband. The transition is a way to axe some of the descendants of his. Children at that age are extremely malleable. You can turn them into or convince them of anything. They also don´t have a concept of sex yet. My parents also let me wear a dress once. Children want to please the desire of the parents, which would also explain why - if both parents tell the truth - the son acts differently around each parent.
b) The mother wants to have an even sex ratio. I have no data on this, but from my experience fathers usually wish for a son or have no preference. Mothers often want to give birth to both genders. My mother always told me how she wanted me to be a girl for said reason (hence the dress thing; luckily there were no surgeries back then). I have heard other women express similar desires. Even here in China, many women still usually want a son [traditionally the better provider at old age] but the second one "can" be a daughter. [this topic is common in China now that a second child is possible for two parents who don´t have siblings]
c) The mother wants to signal virtue. It is like celebraties adopting children from a different race.
d) The mother genuinly believes her son´s "soul" is in the wrong body.
 
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notimp

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Clusterf-

You can look on youtube for conversations between Joe Rogan and Debra Soh.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+rogan+debra+soh

Scientific default position on this should be that you should at least wait until after puberty and probably until that person has reached the age of consent. But it is challenged by a general notion of 'non discrimination' probably - misapplied.

In those Interviews you get snippets like, if a person in a young peoples circle of friends identifies as the opposite gender, statistically in that friend circle you have a 4000% higher chance of another person identifying as the opposite gender as well compared to the statistical average.
 

crimpshrine

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Parents living through their children seems to be even more so these days than ever in the past. I see in some cases kids for some parents being like bumper stickers, instead of letting them be individuals.

I also think it is BS whenever a father gets shafted like this. And he has to pay for it on top.

I had no idea that they allowed medical procedures with children for sex reassignment . That's sad. There are so many things in life that legally require a certain age before being able to do. Surprised they have not made a similar requirement with something like chemical or physical changes to a kids body to mock a different gender.

Was this woman even supposed to have children naturally? Or did science make that happen? If so maybe this is a side affect of going above nature.
 

UltraDolphinRevolution

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Was this woman even supposed to have children naturally? Or did science make that happen? If so maybe this is a side affect of going above nature.
As I stated above, she gave birth to them but she is not the biological mother. However, I suppose giving birth does effect the child in some ways (hormones, nutrients etc).
 

crimpshrine

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As I stated above, she gave birth to them but she is not the biological mother. However, I suppose giving birth does effect the child in some ways (hormones, nutrients etc).

So I guess it is safe to assume without those eggs she would not have been able to make children. Maybe that is another red flag? Like if nature never intended on allowing her to have children.

I read some more on that child. It is really a sad story. I am surprised that father has not done something outside of court if what is being said is true. That the Boy has stated numerous times he wants to stay a boy.
 

notimp

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Was this woman even supposed to have children naturally? Or did science make that happen? If so maybe this is a side affect of going above nature.
Nature doesnt care if you or an entire species dies out tomorrow. Looking for a higher meaning in supposed 'actions of nature towards an individual' is... problematic.

If you are looking out for messages from higher beings in your life, thats... problematic. (Or exactly what your religion prescribed, but in what popular religion do you equate god to nature?)

Why is it problematic?

Because of what you are doing already. "What god meant to say, ..." "What nature meant to do here, ..." You are presenting yourselves as interpreting channels of infallible higher beings... ;)

Talking about trying hard to win an argument.. ;)
 
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crimpshrine

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Nature doesnt care if you or an entire species dies out tomorrow. Looking for a higher meaning in supposed 'actions of nature towards an individual' is... problematic.

If you are looking out for messages from higher beings in your life, thats... problematic. (Or exactly what your religion prescribed, but in what popular religion do you equate god to nature?)

Why is it problematic?

Because of what you are doing already. "What god meant to say, ..." "What nature meant to do here, ..." You are presenting yourselves as interpreting channels of infallible higher beings... ;)

Talking about trying hard to win an argument.. ;)

It is you that is choosing to view nature as religious in nature or a higher power like god. Not me.

Maybe all I meant by "nature" is the basic definition of it.

Nature, in the broadest sense, is the natural, physical, or material world or universe. "Nature" can refer to the phenomena of the physical world, and also to life in general.

You are pretty touchy, LOL.

I take it you have some emotional damage from the church from someone?
 

notimp

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According to you nature had a plan. That was moral. That had purpose. That also included little Susi that couldnt get children on her own. ;)

That line of thinking is how humans made up the concept of gods. ;) And the first deities indeed were derived from concepts in nature. (The river god, the thunder god, the fertility goddess, .. )
 
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crimpshrine

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According to you nature had a plan. That was moral. That had purpose. That also included little Susi that couldnt get children on her own. ;)

That line of thinking is how humans made up the concept of gods. ;)

Maybe you should have asked instead of assuming what I meant? I did not say anything about god, I did not say I am religious and think that god has some plan for us and sure as heck did not intend for her to have kids.

I honestly did not at the time have a precise thing that I thought contributed to this even being a problem to begin with. I was just using the word nature, generally. I don't think this woman should be raising kids. Luck would have it that she would not be able to have kids to do what she is doing now, but science helped get around that.

I suppose she could have still did the same to adopted kids, but at least you would hope she would have to pass some type of test to confirm she is mentally fit to raise a kid or kids she wants to adopt.

Anyhow, my real point to this all is something is not right with that woman. And I feel bad for the father, and the kid involved and I believe it is a travesty that they would allow anyone to take actions with a kid who is not fully developed yet that are so extreme. That at this point has been backed by 1 judge in the legal system.

My main point is not what brought things to the point that this was allowed to even occur in.

Now that I think about it, you come into a thread about some kid who likely does NOT want to be made to simulate females. And you are attempting to debate me about god, when I never mentioned god.

Odd.. so you going to comment on the meat of the post or not?
 
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i want to preface what i say with this: i am very left-wing
i am in favor of socialist policies and generally take a libertarian position on social issues
personal liberty is very important to me and a core part of my ideology

i must say, though, permanent body modifications shouldn't be allowed before the age of adulthood
hormone treatments are included in that, as they fuck with the natural biological processes that occur during the growing phase
this should be stopped
 

MohammedQ8

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well skyrim players can modify characters so why not her hehe

I wonder where they get small penises and vaginas hehe
 
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The thing with sex change is that from what I've seen you have to do it before puberty for it to be convincing. Since you can't reverse puberty. I think it's probably pretty clear at an early age if your kid is not acting like their birth gender but then again, 8 years might be a bit too young to know for sure, since young kids can be unpredictable.
 

notimp

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Convincing?

So you are saying halt the hormonal development of said body before puberty, reverse it medically, then surgically alter primary sexual organs with a risk of loosing sensation, or death, based on the outcome being more convincing?

Which would lead to what? More happy days in the rest of that persons life? As compaired to what, doing the same but with a less convincing outcome?

You are doing those surgeries not because of 'lifestyle choices', but because of severe psychological distress. The difference between 'might be more convincing (as done before puberty set in)' or not wouldnt qualify as severe psychological stress, even if you think it does, people usually should be quite able to cope with that. "But I want to be more beautiful." is a hard argument to drive in this context.
 
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UltraDolphinRevolution

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Beware, notimp is soon going to argue that nature does not exist.
Just kidding, I understood what crimpshrine was saying. However, it is also true that religions are born by people ascribing meaning to everything (if you are the type of person who hears a strange sound and thinks it is a tiger, you are more likely to pass on your genes).

There is some correlation between physical and mental health, but we do not know whether the mother had any problems. She could be just a career woman who waited too long to have biological children of her own. This could be called the trends of our time (just like virtue signaling). And women are especially keen on following social trends.
 
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The "mother" - who isn't even biologically related to either kid, they were created with donor eggs via artificial insemination - is clearly doing this to torment the father. She'll probably win and start the kid on puberty blockers in the next few years.

As tragic as this is, it's probably necessary that people - especially innocent people - suffer from the consequences of left-wing beliefs for them to understand that tolerance of those who want to destroy you is suicide. "I just want to grill," isn't an argument, it's a sign of weakness; and predators such as the "mother" in this case see weakness as reason enough to feed on other people's misery.
 
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eyeliner

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Murder that despicable human that some adjectivate as "mother".
Murder the judge that even considers the possibility of letting some other that the owner of his body to have full control of it.

Let the child be. He will know what gender he wants to be in due time.
 
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ImLEBrAn

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even in the worst understanding of gender dysphoria, why wouldn't we make their lives better by simply giving them what will make them happy
this isn't promotion, it's chronic illness management

Give them what? SRS? Then 10 years later they end up killing themselves? Sounds like a great plan...
 
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MMX

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The thing with sex change is that from what I've seen you have to do it before puberty for it to be convincing. Since you can't reverse puberty. I think it's probably pretty clear at an early age if your kid is not acting like their birth gender but then again, 8 years might be a bit too young to know for sure, since young kids can be unpredictable.

"not acting their birth gender" what does that even mean?. Facebook lists 58 gender options. How would you know?

edit: what's the matter Burorī, why edit your post? :P
 
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