Discussion on modern politics

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by TerribleTy27, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. TerribleTy27
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    TerribleTy27 GBAtemp Regular

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    Or, we accidentally revive debate club.

    Where we last left off:

    If you're going to join in, keep it respectful. There's no reason we can't have a civilized conversation, no matter which side of the spectrum you fall on.
     
    Last edited by TerribleTy27, Sep 13, 2018
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  2. TotalInsanity4

    TotalInsanity4 GBAtemp Supreme Overlord

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    Ok then, to start off, I highly disagree with your assertion that a "typical" republican and a "typical" democrat would attempt to kill each other if tossed in isolation with each other; I genuinely believe that human nature is to ultimately do what is best for ourselves and the people we hold most dear, and that generally speaking a republican and a democrat will put aside differences on opinions on things like foreign relations and economic policy to get along for at least a time with each other. It is only when you factor in the recent revival of nationalist ideals and general disdain for entire classes of people who are not "me!" that you would have people at each other's throats; one side attempting to eradicate the other, and the other merely attempting to survive
     
  3. Attacker3

    Attacker3 GBAtemp Fan

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    Man if only both democrats and republicans were both nationalistic. I don't know where this joke came from where being a nationalist is a bad thing. It just means putting your nation first. Not necessarily your state (read: country), but your people. You're a nationalist if you think that the US should try to get the better end of a deal, and it would be nationalist of me to want Canada to get the better part of the deal.
     
  4. TotalInsanity4

    TotalInsanity4 GBAtemp Supreme Overlord

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    Ok, excuse me. "Extreme nationalism"
     
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  5. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    Yeah, it's more like if you throw a neo-Nazi and an Antifa member in isolation together they'll attempt to kill each other, but that's kind of a given. The thing is that Republicans are willing to go along for the ride when leaders like Trump take a hard right turn, and Democrats haven't had a leader that far to the extreme left. I suppose that would've been Bernie, but if he's the worst case scenario, Republicans are really fear-mongering over nothing when it comes to leftist "extremism."
     
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  6. Attacker3

    Attacker3 GBAtemp Fan

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    And what would extreme nationalism be to you? What's the difference between extreme nationalism and normal nationalism?

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    You do realize that Trump was originally a democrat, and even now acts remarkably like a Business Democrat, right? How do you classify right-leaning? Genuinely curious.
     
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  7. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    Typically one of them wants to cleanse the nation of anybody non-white. Which is ridiculous considering the natives who were here before us.

    Please tell me you're joking. Democrats don't cut corporate tax rates in half. Trump is acting more like GWB, a Republican with a spending problem putting us as deep in debt as possible to please the corporate overlords. And the tariffs are just an extra special level of stupid that no other modern president would've signed off on.
     
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  8. TerribleTy27
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    TerribleTy27 GBAtemp Regular

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    Yeah, that was an exaggeration. But definitely among the people who treat their parties like religions, I would see someone dying.
     
  9. Attacker3

    Attacker3 GBAtemp Fan

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    First off, what you are describing is not nationalism. It's a thing called genocide. I suppose you could say it is ethno-nationalism, but that is different than nationalism. And the US corporate tax rate was at 35%, and was dropped down to 21%. That is not half. Half of 35 is 17.5. And the US is now on par with most major countries now. Before Trump, the corporate tax rate was one of, if no the highest in the western world. They now dropped it to be in line with other more "democratic" nations.
     
  10. TotalInsanity4

    TotalInsanity4 GBAtemp Supreme Overlord

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    So you think that with a true representative democracy (i.e. everyone votes on important decisions, people can be voted OUT of congress if outcry is loud enough, etc.), that those people would be a hazard to the nation, rather than taking the extra opportunity for democratic engagement to improve it?
     
  11. TerribleTy27
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    TerribleTy27 GBAtemp Regular

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    No, that's just racism. To a true nationalist, it doesn't matter if you're white, black, or even Mexican. If you have a US passport, you're american. Extreme Nationalism would be trying to destroy all other countries to prevent your own from ever being hurt.

    Of course, in practical terms, you still provide a pretty good description.
     
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  12. WD_GASTER2

    WD_GASTER2 GBAtemp Regular

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    The problem is that those that see it as religious are fed a "caricature" of the opposing side at all times. They believe that there is a huge segment of the opposing that side to be this caricature. Add to the fact that people generalize and you have recipe for a mess :(
    sorry to butt in but this conversation seems interesting. lol
     
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  13. TerribleTy27
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    TerribleTy27 GBAtemp Regular

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    Maybeee not in a representative democracy. but in true, i.e. Direct democracy, Youre guaranteed to have fun stuff like tyranny of the majority and mob rule.
     
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  14. Attacker3

    Attacker3 GBAtemp Fan

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    Don't know what this argument is about, but I'm just going to say that if the US did not have the electoral college, then essentially 3 cities would decide for all of the USA.
     
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  15. TotalInsanity4

    TotalInsanity4 GBAtemp Supreme Overlord

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    Not true at all, under fascist nationalism (which is quite frankly how I'd classify extreme nationalism), the leader of the country gets to dictate who is and isn't citizens, even if they've lived in the country legally for most of, if not all of their life. And that's not just hypothetical, that is happening right now. And before you say "well, they did 'x' to deserve that!" I want you to think for a second; what's stopping the government from asserting that anyone who has immigrated to America is not a naturalized citizen? They hold the paperwork, which they can theoretically alter to say whatever they want, and they clearly have the power to retroactively revoke citizenship. So how exactly can one definitively say that "if you have a US Passport, you'll be protected by US nationalism"?

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    I don't know that that's something that anyone is genuinely proposing, though?...
     
  16. Attacker3

    Attacker3 GBAtemp Fan

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    What's happening right now?
     
  17. WD_GASTER2

    WD_GASTER2 GBAtemp Regular

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    not gonna lie, there are a lot of "EFFED-UP" undertones with the current brand of nationalism that some folks are pushing for to believe otherwise would be blind.
     
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  18. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    With nationalism too often comes an ignorance and belief that this country was founded to be a "white, Christian nation." I'll concede that nationalism on its own isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it easily leads to so many bad things. My biggest gripe with the whole philosophy is that nationalists will cheer the country right into the grave, pretending everything is going smoothly the entire time.

    We're one of the wealthiest nations on Earth and profit margins are higher than they've ever been, not a single corporation needed that cut. If he had given a cut that large to the workers of this nation, which would actually make sense, we'd be having an entirely different conversation.
     
  19. Attacker3

    Attacker3 GBAtemp Fan

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    He did though
     
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  20. TotalInsanity4

    TotalInsanity4 GBAtemp Supreme Overlord

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    Hyperlinks. Hyperlinks are happening right now.

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    Workers, not corporate heads
     
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