Dead Newborn Found in Store's Washroom

KingVamp

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*snip
I just couldn't help think that...sorry

So... at what point is something consider an alive human...
(Not saying it is right, just asking.)

Killing the baby is terrible.
Had another thought,but lost it.

Oh yeah, see most of your threads are provoking. :P
 

Hells Malice

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Same as above; invalid because it already happened in this case. She only had the choice to divorce or to kill the baby herself.
Your acting like one of the two is necessary. She did not have to strangle the baby or to have an abortion. She could have kept the baby or put it up for adoption.

Not to say giving 'someone' a chance at life is a bad thing, but orphans often hate their lives because of piss poor living conditions, and the whole "my parents hated me enough to give me away" thing. Combine that with the fact a proper abortion will terminate a fetus before it is a conscious being, it's a hard call. Abortion robs the fetus of a chance at living, but it does not rob the living of a chance at life.
Right or wrong the undeniable fact is that what she did was horrible compared to any of the alternatives, abortion included. They are in NO way similar, and not even close to being "the same thing."

EDIT: i'd like to note, the first part of my post wasn't justifying killing her baby. I agree she should have given it up for adoption, i'm talking purely from an abortion vs deciding to have the baby and planning to put it in an orphanage.
 
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JoostinOnline

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Same as above; invalid because it already happened in this case. She only had the choice to divorce or to kill the baby herself.
Your acting like one of the two is necessary. She did not have to strangle the baby or to have an abortion. She could have kept the baby or put it up for adoption.

Not to say giving 'someone' a chance at life is a bad thing, but orphans often hate their lives because of piss poor living conditions, and the whole "my parents hated me enough to give me away" thing. Combine that with the fact a proper abortion will terminate a fetus before it is a conscious being, it's a hard call. Abortion robs the fetus of a chance at living, but it does not rob the living of a chance at life.
Right or wrong the undeniable fact is that what she did was horrible compared to any of the alternatives, abortion included. They are in NO way similar, and not even close to being "the same thing."

EDIT: i'd like to note, the first part of my post wasn't justifying killing her baby. I agree she should have given it up for adoption, i'm talking purely from an abortion vs deciding to have the baby and planning to put it in an orphanage.
I'd say they are close in the sense of the degrees of murder. Here is an earlier quote:
The only way I can see abortion being better in this case would be like if you were going to shoot someone in their sleep or strangle them. One is less terrible than the other.
 

s4mid4re

 
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I'd say they are close in the sense of the degrees of murder. Here is an earlier quote:
The only way I can see abortion being better in this case would be like if you were going to shoot someone in their sleep or strangle them. One is less terrible than the other.
Yes, it's a degree of murder (if you consider abortion as murder, that is). But I don't see how strangling somebody to death during sleep would be better than abortion. Abortion is probably the most peaceful way to kill a baby deliberately.
 

JoostinOnline

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I'd say they are close in the sense of the degrees of murder. Here is an earlier quote:
The only way I can see abortion being better in this case would be like if you were going to shoot someone in their sleep or strangle them. One is less terrible than the other.
Yes, it's a degree of murder (if you consider abortion as murder, that is). But I don't see how strangling somebody to death during sleep would be better than abortion. Abortion is probably the most peaceful way to kill a baby deliberately.
I didn't say strangle, I said shoot. It would be instant.
 

s4mid4re

 
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I'd say they are close in the sense of the degrees of murder. Here is an earlier quote:
The only way I can see abortion being better in this case would be like if you were going to shoot someone in their sleep or strangle them. One is less terrible than the other.
Yes, it's a degree of murder (if you consider abortion as murder, that is). But I don't see how strangling somebody to death during sleep would be better than abortion. Abortion is probably the most peaceful way to kill a baby deliberately.
I didn't say strangle, I said shoot. It would be instant.
Implying that the babies feel pain when they're going through abortion? Also, that would be crime, abortion is not. I would feel worse of myself if I had shot my baby, rather than going through abortion.
 

JoostinOnline

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I'd say they are close in the sense of the degrees of murder. Here is an earlier quote:
The only way I can see abortion being better in this case would be like if you were going to shoot someone in their sleep or strangle them. One is less terrible than the other.
Yes, it's a degree of murder (if you consider abortion as murder, that is). But I don't see how strangling somebody to death during sleep would be better than abortion. Abortion is probably the most peaceful way to kill a baby deliberately.
I didn't say strangle, I said shoot. It would be instant.
Implying that the babies feel pain when they're going through abortion? Also, that would be crime; abortion is not. I would feel worse of myself if I had shot my baby, rather than going through abortion.
No, I was implying that babies feel pain when they get strangled.
 

s4mid4re

 
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I'd say they are close in the sense of the degrees of murder. Here is an earlier quote:
The only way I can see abortion being better in this case would be like if you were going to shoot someone in their sleep or strangle them. One is less terrible than the other.
Yes, it's a degree of murder (if you consider abortion as murder, that is). But I don't see how strangling somebody to death during sleep would be better than abortion. Abortion is probably the most peaceful way to kill a baby deliberately.
I didn't say strangle, I said shoot. It would be instant.
Implying that the babies feel pain when they're going through abortion? Also, that would be crime; abortion is not. I would feel worse of myself if I had shot my baby, rather than going through abortion.
No, I was implying that babies feel pain when they get strangled.
That's not my point. I was comparing shooting your baby vs. going through abortion. Both are painless. Now, would you like to consider yourself a murderer, or somebody who legally chose abortion?


Also, that would be crime, abortion is not.
That depends on the country.
To a degree, abortion would be better than deliberately killing your baby with your own hands. It's more of a morality stance. I would feel myself as a lowly murderer if I had killed a baby with my own hands. Abortion can be avoided, but the baby's only future was to be killed by his/her parent.
 

Sicklyboy

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I'd say they are close in the sense of the degrees of murder. Here is an earlier quote:
The only way I can see abortion being better in this case would be like if you were going to shoot someone in their sleep or strangle them. One is less terrible than the other.
Yes, it's a degree of murder (if you consider abortion as murder, that is). But I don't see how strangling somebody to death during sleep would be better than abortion. Abortion is probably the most peaceful way to kill a baby deliberately.
I didn't say strangle, I said shoot. It would be instant.

Throwing this out there, first off - I am pro-choice. I do not agree with abortion, however everybody's circumstances are different. While it may be feasible for one to put a child up for adoption, others may see the need to have their child aborted. One thing to take into consideration is this - whether the child will have life-degrading birth defects and/or diseases upon birth. Is it better to have a child that may live days, weeks, or months in agonizing pain than to not have the child in the end at all?

That said, it is sick that she killed her child. However, she did. So as stated previously in the thread, one way or another it would have been better to get the abortion because the child would have never even had a single cognitive thought process. If the child/fetus is going to die one way or another, it would be more sensible and humane to have the child aborted before it can be "aware" rather than strangling the life out of a child that you just gave birth to.

I am tired and losing my thought process though. Not trying to argue anyone being right or wrong here, but I strongly feel that given the outcome of a dead child one way or another, the more "acceptable" way would have been abortion, and it surprises me that when given the question "strangle or abort", the members here who are against abortion dodge the question each and every time.

Anyway, I'll catch back up on this thread tomorrow probably.
 
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smile72

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KingVamp I didn't intend for this to turn into a discussion about abortion. And most of my threads aren't (intentionally) provoking.
 

Gahars

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Some 600th post, huh?

Alright, let's lighten up the mood a bit: How many dead babies does it take to make this post classy again?
 

omgpwn666

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Some 600th post, huh?

Alright, let's lighten up the mood a bit: How many dead babies does it take to make this post classy again?

Two babies. One to be dead, and the second to confirm the death of the first baby. By the way, the second baby is a doctor.
 
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