Covid-19 vaccine

[Lacius]

I got vaccinated way back in May. 2 doses of Moderna. I just don't see what the reasoning is for not getting it. Your not getting chipped.(Though if you have a cell phone you basicaly already are). If it's because they think it's rushed, they have been working on these virus vaccines for year. If it's just stupidity, well we know there is no fix for that.

The Pfizer vaccine was completed by April, 2020. The rest of the time was safety and efficacy testing.

Edit: Actually, the mRNA vaccines were done pretty much by the end of January, 2020. April is just when the real safety and efficacy testing started.

 

[Hanafuda]

Do you just like misleading screenshots?

I'm not being misled. But someone is paying for a whole lot of misleading out there.

And no, I've not posted those screenshots before this.

Twitter is a swirling mass of propaganda and falsehoods. On all sides. When it is being done 'with good intentions,' I find it very concerning. When it is being fronted by the government and big tech, I find it downright terrifying.

 

[Dakitten]

I'm not being misled. But someone is paying for a whole lot of misleading out there.

And no, I've not posted those screenshots before this.

Twitter is a swirling mass of propaganda and falsehoods. On all sides. When it is being done 'with good intentions,' I find it very concerning. When it is being fronted by the government and big tech, I find it downright terrifying.

You presume it is being done by the government and big tech... first of all, twitter isn't owned nor managed by the government, and it doesn't have a dog in the fight for vaccination efforts. What purpose would twitter spam serve either party? If anything it seems like user-generated conspiracy bait.

Second, glad you believe yourself informed, but... about what? Care to clarify a notch or two?

Lastly, I yield it is possible someone else posted that nonsense prior, but it still doesn't really mean anything. At the end of the day, twitter is just a platform for quick dirty snippets of whatever, hardly a source for healthy discourse or intelligent discussion.

 

[seany1990]

Fully microchipped and fully magnetised

 

[Ibcap]

"mocking it."

Yeah, sure.

They literally changed delta variant to ligma variant in one of your pictures, there's no way you actually believe that a pro vaccine leftist is copy pasting tweets from doctors but replacing delta with ligma. Its incredibly obviously a troll and you fell for it but you cant admit that.

 

[osaka35]

The hope is that once it mutates, it will create new, less deadly strains over time (which apparently is the trend with most viruses), but yes, it won't be completely eradicated, it covers too much ground. If this strain survives, it will be just as dangerous in the future as it is today, so it makes perfect sense to immunise against it. There's no better time for it than right now, while it's at its peak and the risk of contracting it is high.

OOOO, something I know something about! yes, you are completely correct. the tl;dr version is viruses want to survive, and their survival is maximized by propagating incredibly well...but minimizing damage to the host. So, to the topic on hand, most viruses like this are deadly because they jumped from one species to another. The original species has mild symptoms, but that's because the viruses has adapted itself to that particular species. When a virus jumps species, the virus is still acting like it's in the old host, doing stuff that'd be mild for the old host...but is incredibly deadly to the new host. whoopsies.

Eventually it'll hopefully mutate an adaptation that makes itself less and less damaging to the new host species. But only if it doesn't kill all of them first. I mean, it doesn't *have* to adapt, it could just as easily become more deadly...but that trend doesn't help its survival, which means its far less likely to happen. So either way, it's best to get a vaccine. Because who knows how long it'll take for random mutations to be beneficial for the virus (and us).

fun biology lesson for everyone reading this: i say words like "it will adapt" and "it wants" and "acting like", but these are just words used to understand. the virus has no actual agency. it's like rolling a bunch of marbles down a hill. you can describe the twist and turns "ooo marble A wanted to take that turn a lot more sharply, but marble B cut it off!", but they're just marbles rolling down a hill. same with viruses, and biology as a whole, for that matter.

 

[Hanafuda]

TLDR, eradication is a fantasy, elimination requires significantly more people getting vaccinated, so we are probably left with the disease becoming endemic and comparable to today's relationship with influenza.

Well I agree with you on this. It will never 'go away' completely. This isn't polio or smallpox, it will never be eradicated. Besides just vax hesitancy/resistance in western countries, there's a whole world out there. My in-laws in Japan were on the waiting list for months and finally just got their first shots, and they're both over 80. The flu strain that caused a global pandemic in 1969 is still out there. The 1918 flu strain is probably still out there. And Covid-19, being a coronavirus like many instances of 'common cold' are also coronaviruses, will always be out there. There will never be zero deaths from it. And in the short term, every time we open things back up, even incrementally, there will be a spike. We just have to be sensible about it and accept this, or we'll just be pulling taffy forever instead of pulling off the band-aid. There was a spike in January after many people gathered for Christmas, started going back to work, going shopping, living everyday life (albeit with the mostly useless masks). And there is a spike now, because in many places 4-6 weeks ago we finally abandoned the masks (ostensibly only for the 'fully vaccinated') and social distancing, and most people started living somewhat like normal again.

 

[Lacius]

Well I agree with you on this. It will never 'go away' completely. This isn't polio or smallpox, it will never be eradicated. Besides just vax hesitancy/resistance in western countries, there's a whole world out there. My in-laws in Japan were on the waiting list for months and finally just got their first shots, and they're both over 80. The flu strain that caused a global pandemic in 1969 is still out there. The 1918 flu strain is probably still out there. And Covid-19, being a coronavirus like many instances of 'common cold' are also coronaviruses, will always be out there. There will never be zero deaths from it. And in the short term, every time we open things back up, even incrementally, there will be a spike. We just have to be sensible about it and accept this, or we'll just be pulling taffy forever instead of pulling off the band-aid. There was a spike in January after many people gathered for Christmas, started going back to work, going shopping, living everyday life (albeit with the mostly useless masks). And there is a spike now, because in many places 4-6 weeks ago we finally abandoned the masks (ostensibly only for the 'fully vaccinated') and social distancing, and most people started living somewhat like normal again.

The spike in January in the northern hemisphere was in large part because of the winter weather (infectious diseases are more contagious when the weather is cold, there isn't a lot of humidity, and people are more likely to be indoors). The spike we are seeing now is in large part because the delta variant is more infectious, and a significant number of people refuse to get vaccinated.

Also, masks are not "mostly useless." They demonstrably work.

 

[jimbo13]

The spike in January in the northern hemisphere was in large part because of the winter weather (infectious diseases are more contagious when the weather is cold, there isn't a lot of humidity, and people are more likely to be indoors). The spike we are seeing now is in large part because the delta variant is more infectious, and a significant number of people refuse to get vaccinated.

Also, masks are not "mostly useless." They demonstrably work.

Masks are nonsense theater, they have no consistency of make/materials in the population to even do an accurate study. There is 0 consistency in home made or fashion masks.

We have had Corona virus's long before Covid19 appeared and the science of airborne virus's didn't magically change from what we had already established. Anything less than a N95 does virtually nothing and makes you touch your face.

 

[Lacius]

Masks are nonsense theater, they have no consistency of make/materials in the population to even do an accurate study. There is 0 consistency in home made or fashion masks.

We have numerous studies that show that mask mandates work, regardless of the inconsistency in the make/materials of the masks being used by the public. The Kansas study, as one example, was an excellent apples-to-apples comparison.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm

We have had Corona virus's long before Covid19 appeared and the science of airborne virus's didn't magically change from what we had already established. Anything less than a N95 does virtually nothing and makes you touch your face.

While an N95 would be preferred, masks that aren't medical-grade masks are also at least somewhat effective in blocking saliva droplets (and thus the virus) as well. See above for the Kansas study, which is one of many studies that shows that mask mandates work.

Some of what Fauci said in the video is still true today (e.g. "Masks are not perfect protection"). However, comments like "people should not be walking around with masks" are outdated, and Fauci has said so. I already explained earlier in this thread (perhaps even in response to you) that Fauci said what he did about masks because a.) The science wasn't completely clear about reusable cotton masks and other masks that weren't medical-grade masks, and b.) There was a shortage of medical-grade masks, and he specifically did not want ordinary citizens hoarding medical-grade masks when the healthcare professions needed them most.

A position that can only be defended by out-of-context and out-of-date YouTube clips, instead of by the science and scientists, probably isn't a defensible position.

 

[jimbo13]

We have numerous studies that show that mask mandates work, regardless of the inconsistency in the make/materials of the masks being used by the public. The Kansas study, as one example, was an excellent apples-to-apples comparison.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm


While an N95 would be preferred, masks that aren't medical-grade masks are also at least somewhat effective in blocking saliva droplets (and thus the virus) as well. See above for the Kansas study, which is one of many studies that shows that mask mandates work.

Some of what Fauci said in the video is still true today (e.g. "Masks are not perfect protection"). However, comments like "people should not be walking around with masks" are outdated, and Fauci has said so. I already explained earlier in this thread (perhaps even in response to you) that Fauci said what he did about masks because a.) The science wasn't completely clear about reusable cotton masks and other masks that weren't medical-grade masks, and b.) There was a shortage of medical-grade masks, and he specifically did not want ordinary citizens hoarding medical-grade masks when the healthcare professions needed them most.

A position that can only be defended by out-of-context and out-of-date YouTube clips, instead of by the science and scientists, probably isn't a defensible position.

To think all this time all they needed was a crocheted kitty mask...

 

[Lacius]

To think all this time all they needed was a crocheted kitty mask...

Crochet masks generally are not recommended.

 

[Hanafuda]

Also, masks are not "mostly useless." They demonstrably work.

The right masks work, sure. But nobody wears the right masks, excepting for medical professionals and some lucky people able to get thoseelusive N95's. But a piece of t-shirt material on your face or a tissue 'surgical mask' is just theater.

Michael Osterholm says "we should be focusing on vaccine, vaccine, and vaccine," and he wants to get rid of the term "masking" because "it implies anything you put in front of your face works." pic.twitter.com/y6LkQE2kCq

— The Post Millennial (@TPostMillennial) August 2, 2021

 

[jimbo13]

Crochet masks generally are not recommended.

There is nothing in any of the masks mandates that prohibit a mask being Crochet'ed quit deferring to common sense.

 

[Foxi4]

The right masks work, sure. But nobody wears the right masks, excepting for medical professionals and some lucky people able to get thoseelusive N95's. But a piece of t-shirt material on your face or a tissue 'surgical mask' is just theater.

It's theater in the sense that it doesn't provide any appreciable degree of filtration. It "works" in the sense that it prevents saliva splatter as you speak, which reduces (not negates) spread onto others and onto surfaces. The degree of efficacy of non-medical masks is modest at best, but it is a barrier for large droplets. Fine particulate from normal breathing passes through them, but you shouldn't be in a proximity close enough to make it a relevant factor in regards to interacting with strangers anyway, hence the distancing recommendation (in some places requirement). Masking operates on the assumption of "something is better than nothing", ideally we'd all be using masks that are tightly-fitting and capable of filtration of fine particulate, but it's not an ideal world. They are indeed no replacement for inoculation, rather a spread reduction measure.

 

[Lacius]

The right masks work, sure. But nobody wears the right masks, excepting for medical professionals and some lucky people able to get thoseelusive N95's. But a piece of t-shirt material on your face or a tissue 'surgical mask' is just theater.

Studies show that mask mandates work, and most people aren't wearing surgical masks. See my post above for more details.

Cloth masks, for example, do not offer perfect protection. In fact, the data shows they probably offer protection somewhere around 50%. They aren't great. For comparison, the vaccines currently offer about 88% real-world protection against presently circulating COVID-19 variants. However, the protection afforded by masks still makes a big difference.

Edit: To be clear, mask-wearing works in part because it reduces potential disease vectors. For every one person who doesn't get infected because somebody was wearing a mask, you have numerous people that didn't get infected who otherwise would have because they were never exposed to the disease in the first place.

There is nothing in any of the masks mandates that prohibit a mask being Crochet'ed quit deferring to common sense.

Most people know not to wear crocheted masks. In addition, some mask mandates preclude crocheted masks, and the CDC guidance precludes crocheted masks.

 

[Foxi4]

Ironically, even a crocheted mask would provide *some* degree of spread reduction for as long as it absorbs moisture - what would normally land somewhere else would instead be absorbed by the wool strands. Sadly, wool is somewhat hydrophobic, so once the cavities between fibers become filled with moisture and the mask is damp, it would stop doing anything at all. I suspect this would happen within minutes and would (obviously) not stop large droplets from being launched by your mouth, but if we're being cheeky then technically some of your spit would in fact remain on your face as opposed to in the surrounding air.

 

[Lacius]

Ironically, even a crocheted mask would provide *some* degree of spread reduction for as long as it absorbs moisture - what would normally land somewhere else would instead be absorbed by the wool strands. Sadly, wool is somewhat hydrophobic, so once the cavities between fibers become damp, it would stop doing anything at all. I suspect this would happen within minutes and would (obviously) not stop large droplets from being launched by your mouth, but if we're being cheeky then technically some of your spit would in fact remain on four face as opposed to in the surrounding air.

Funnily, there are patterns out there for crocheted masks that offer sufficient protection against COVID-19, but they include a cloth filter on the inside. In other words, it's basically a cloth mask with yarn on the outside.

 

[Foxi4]

Funnily, there are patterns out there for crocheted masks that offer sufficient protection against COVID-19, but they include a cloth filter on the inside. In other words, it's basically a cloth mask with yarn on the outside.

Who am I to judge the fashionistas around me - I'm just a numbers guy.

 

[leon315]

Today i've got my 1st shot of Pfizer vaccine, i'm feeling great!
Hey, u got vaccine yet? What are you waiting for?