China's Ghost Cities and Malls

[Nathan Drake]

The video below depicts China's increasing housing and city developments that continue to go unoccupied. Citizens are angry with their government for these unattainable structures and have little hope that the government will turn around and listen to what they need.

The video is about 15 minutes due to it being a small documentary.

[youtube]rPILhiTJv7E[/youtube]

What do you all think about this?

I honestly have to wonder how China is still able to keep going with such detrimental decisions such as these ones being made. Citizens can't even afford the outrageous prices of these housing units, and businesses go without any leases. All this really serves to do is to raise China's GDP, while leaving the country the government is supposed to be running in a terrible place.

 

[Costello]

this is a considerably important subject for the world's economy...
you might think it only affect China's economy, but think of all the countries that work to support that
- raw materials
- utilities, trucks, all the vehicles used for building
- oil
- etc.
those don't just come from China
if China stops building, all the above will drop terribly and thousands/millions of jobs will suffer among various industries

I live in China and I can tell that this documentary is completely true. I used to live in a city where they build this HUGE mall a few years back, and it was completely empty! A few shops were still running but most went ouf of business. And they're also building new residences everywhere! there's not a single city where they aren't building new places...

On the one hand prices are rising because rich chinese citizens are purchasing houses while they can (when they're freshly built they're still affordable)... which makes prices rise even higher
On the other hand there's still a lot of poor people who cannot afford to buy anything like that and who will never be able to, since prices are constantly rising.

Anyhow when the bubble bursts this could have serious consequences on the world's economy, not just China.

Thanks for the video anyhow, it summarizes the problem quite well, I'll show my friends.

 

[KingdomBlade]

If I remember correctly, the South China Mall is the largest mall in the world, however, only 10% of its actual available space is occupied with stores and such.

 

[Zorua]

If I remember correctly, the South China Mall is the largest mall in the world, however, only 10% of its actual available space is occupied with stores and such.

I don't think so. When I went to Dubai they told me that 'Mall of Dubai' or something like that is the largest mall in the world. I'm not really sure though.

 

[nryn99]

If I remember correctly, the South China Mall is the largest mall in the world, however, only 10% of its actual available space is occupied with stores and such.

I don't think so. When I went to Dubai they told me that 'Mall of Dubai' or something like that is the largest mall in the world. I'm not really sure though.


found this list but it says it's as of 2008, better read the quotes below
http://www.easternct.edu/~pocock/MallsWorld.htm

wikipedia list
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_large...ls_in_the_world

EDIT:

Twice delayed, Dubai Mall opened on November 4, 2008, with about 600 retailers, marking the world's largest-ever mall opening in retail history. However it is not the largest in gross leasable space, and is surpassed in that category by several malls including the South China Mall, which is the world's largest, Golden Resources Mall, SM City North Edsa, and SM Mall of Asia.

but...
wikipedia

The Dubai Mall is the world's largest shopping mall based on total area

 

[Zorua]

If I remember correctly, the South China Mall is the largest mall in the world, however, only 10% of its actual available space is occupied with stores and such.

I don't think so. When I went to Dubai they told me that 'Mall of Dubai' or something like that is the largest mall in the world. I'm not really sure though.

found this list but it says it's as of 2008
http://www.easternct.edu/~pocock/MallsWorld.htm

i'll try to look for more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dubai_Mall

 

[nryn99]

*snip* ah found what i was looking for, nevermind.

 

[FAST6191]

Excuse me as I pack my skateboard, bike and climbing gear (and suitable bribery money) and start to fire off messages to sort a trip to China.

On the socio-economic front China is hardly alone in this building for the sake of building thing (although this is a bit on the extreme side)- it has slowed in recent years but I saw it all over the UK and in the parts of Europe (especially Spain) and the US I visited and others accounts were this was not a unique situation to wherever I found myself and in most places it was governments pushing it (tax breaks, incentives and what have you) although there is a fair bit of private pyramid scheme investment activity going on (I did a bit of work for some people in that world edit- that was not clear- I did a bit of work for people playing in Asian property investment).

Also they keep harping on about expense- wage to cost they are about the same as we see around here. Not to mention I will raise an eyebrow at their human interest story (is capital/big city living expensive (especially on wages provided from a low skilled job)?.... colour me surprised). Probably part of the language of news however

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpVTUdfcEMg[/youtube]

I might also argue that some of those people are not that well versed in Chinese culture it would seem ( http://www.ted.com/talks/martin_jacques_un...e_of_china.html ) as well as some aspects of economics "has not experienced a US style credit implosion"- I thought that was more the fault of fun sides of CDOs, lax checks on borrowing and what have you.

Got to love that bamboo scaffolding is maintained right up to the high rise stuff though.

At least they seem to be maintaining it too- most of the empty shells/half finished buildings around here are looking like they will have to be torn down if nothing is done in the next couple of years (and even someone appears willing to do something it will be quite expensive) or they have been hastily converted to cheap places where they started out as high priced commuter/city homes- is that a bricked up lift shaft and air conditioning system I see?

What I am interested to see if whether some big companies will come in and make a company city (many places around the world have them.... memories of my trip to Cadbury village..... but China has a big line in them).

I will also echo Costello's comment- China has a fair amount of economic influence around vast parts of the world (indeed some of the economic stuff is extensive enough to be considered in the same realms or higher than a individual country might be- whether you want to ignore borders just yet is a different matter). A bubble bursting around there would have lots of knock on effects.

 

[Hop2089]

The South China Mall has less than 1% of it's space occupied, someone give the street hawkers a license to sell food there.

 

[KingdomBlade]

The South China Mall has less than 1% of it's space unoccupied, someone give the street hawkers a license to sell food there.

I think you mean that the South China Mall has less than 1% of its space occupied.

 

[Hop2089]

The South China Mall has less than 1% of it's space unoccupied, someone give the street hawkers a license to sell food there.

I think you mean that the South China Mall has less than 1% of its space occupied.

Yes

 

[doyama]

The South China Mall has less than 1% of it's space occupied, someone give the street hawkers a license to sell food there.

Street hawkers don't pay enough bribery money to the local police/commerce division to be allowed to sell stuff there.

 

[rastsan]

there is a few neighbourhoods in toronto heading that way, funny thing is they used to be low income housing. torn down to build a better future, supposedly.

Coincedentally yet another reason why I left my home town, too many new buildings being put up too many factories CLOSING and more than 3/4 of the town empty... I quickly saw the big picture when my parents bitched about paying X for there mortgage when the brand new houses 5 minutes away that were smaller crappier built and 3 times as expensive. (at the time - just did a check now 5 times)

Does make me wonder who the genuises are that keep building - instead of investing in existing residential - buying and/then renting out. or say building a new factory...

 

[FAST6191]

or say building a new factory...

But insurance companies, retail and finance companies employ so many more people and for a given footprint, pay more taxes to the area not to mention factories somehow pollute more even with the more than stringent restrictions in place.


I can only hope it ends up like the early 90s- I want a nice old factory to call my house and ply my trade from.

In fact (clickety clickety click) it already seems to be heading that way. Now comes the question of do I want to settle here.

 

[unseen4ce]

That would be a dream, an empty city with no one for miles. Camping out and sneaking around the hidden areas of the mall. A huge city that you have total reign of; man that would be cool. I would break into every single place, grow my own food and hunt at night.

When I first saw this doco, I didn't see what the problem is; all I see is an intriguing way to live.

 

[rastsan]

the point is the bleakness of it all, the shame of so much work and money going to waste. like the american western ghost towns of the 1800's.

 

[doyama]

The ghost towns of the 1800s were because people left. The ghost cities in China are because no one CAME

 

[rastsan]

both built in anticapation of resources, the difference being that someone should have made sure there were resources first before building...