China Arrests 49 Leaders of Underground Christian Church

nando

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jerome27 said:
I'm no charlie church but Christians do more to help the poor and the sick than any other religion. Just take a drive around your own home town. There are no "muslim, atheist, jewish, hindu soup kitchens."


i know more non religious soup kitchens in my area than any other. there is one in sf that feeds more people on a single sunday than churches feed poor people in a whole month.

there are several free cafes here in oakland too. mostly pagan hippies.
 

ShadowSoldier

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Magsor said:
I am not sure this news has anything to do with Gbatemp. Its not CNN here. I will say that to every news that where i feel that way.

User Submitted News doesn't HAVE to be about gaming. Maybe you should know that.

Also, if all you're going to do is just post in every thread that doesn't involve GBAtemp, I'm just going to report them for spam.


So what's this about? You're not allowed to pray to a different religion if you live in China or something? That or you have to go through certain procedures? What if you pray at your own home to a different religion, is that allowed?
 

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Thesolcity said:
I didn't say anything about him advancing anything. I said he went there to raise awareness and try to shut down a prison camp, which he rose awareness for.
QUOTE said:
Remember the whole fiasco where two journalists were "abducted" by North Korea?
Key word there: JOURNALISTS, not christians.
QUOTE said:
I wonder why these Christian missionaries always prey on "poor" and "less educated" communities
There was no mention of it being a poor or less educated community, you have no evidence of this.

All you've made yourself look like in this thread is biased against Christians. You don't have any proof taxpayers' dollars were spent on a commercial flight from China, this guy went there to RAISE AWARENESS about a brutal prison camp which in turn this article and news coverage did. You tried to pin some form of blame on Christians earlier in the thread by implying we constantly spend tax dollars bailing them out of international jails for preaching their message. Instead of citing a story where someone from the U.S. was jailed on basis of religion causing us to spend taxpayer dollars on their bail, you bring up a story about journalists imprisoned in Korea on non-religious grounds. You tried to use the articles you linked to as evidence of your "international Bailout" theory which clearly state the victim did not want taxpayer dollars spent on his bail, and upon further reading state Korea releases him, free of charge. This case is over and done with. Moderators, may we have your verdict?

I'll let this blog post do the talking for me:

QUOTE
What could a free man hope to accomplish by crossing without permission into North Korea, to ask its rulers to repent, close the prison camps and free the people? Robert Park, a young American of Korean descent made exactly that crossing on Christmas day, walking from China into North Korea across the frozen Tumen River. There are reports that as he crossed, he called out, “I came here to proclaim God’s love.”

A manifesto attributed to Park, leader of a Christian group advocating human rights for North Koreans, includes the statement: “All we are asking is for all North Koreans to be free, safe and have life.”

Chances are nil that North Korea’s regime will receive Park in that spirit. North Korea-watcher Joshua Stanton, who includes the full text of the above manifesto on his well-informed One Free Korea blog, worries with good reason that Park will become yet another pawn in the endless extortion rackets and depravities of North Korean “diplomacy.” Park reportedly said before he went in to North Korea that he did not want to be ransomed by the U.S. government. But based on dismal experience — recall Bill Clinton’s Pyongyang trip in August to pick up the detained Laura Ling and Euna Lee – Stanton fears that already “junior and has-been diplomats all along the Eastern Seaboard are imagining themselves escorting Robert Park up the steps of a charter flight at Sunan Airport, having left behind enough ransom aid to run a small concentration camp for years.”

That sounds sadly accurate. And yet… there are powerful reasons why a man who cares deeply about human rights for North Koreans might feel impelled to set out across that frozen river. For years, the monstrous miseries inside North Korea have been known, detailed, attested to before congressional committees, documented by carefully cross-correlated reports, deplored by human rights groups and chronicled by defectors. For a sample, you can browse the atrocities documented by the Washington-based U.S. Committee for Human Rights in North Korea — and if you want to look further, you can amass a large collection of books, movies, news reports and graphic findings about the brutalities North Korea’s government systematically inflicts on its people.

http://pajamasmedia.com/claudiarosett/cros...to-north-korea/

Whether the government bailed him out or the North Koreans made good use of him as a propaganda tool (which they did) to legitimize their regime, it doesn't really matter. Either way, it's either U.S. foreign policy or the taxpayer that's on the losing end of the stick, not the North Korean regime. You can thank Robert Park and Jesus praising for that.

And it's not a secret Christians like to target rural, less-educated communities. Just like in the United States, the more liberal states in the northeast tend to be less evangelical and religious compared to the *ahem* "Bible Belt". And just like in Europe, where the trend has been towards a more secular, even atheistic society in the western/northern part of the continent (compared to the less developed Central/Eastern European states). It's not surprising that the missionaries concerned in the OP's article practiced in the relatively poor inland province of central China--Henan, a place not exactly known to be an economic hotspot like the SEZs over on the coast.

That being said, believe what you want, I really couldn't care less. My biggest gripe against religion is their shameless tendency to proselytize in places where they are clearly not welcome. And if you know anything about Chinese history, I'm pretty sure the banning of Christian activity in the country following the Rites Controversy with Rome speaks to that effect.
 

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jerome27 said:
anonkit said:
I wonder why these Christian missionaries always prey on "poor" and "less educated" communities.

rolleyes.gif


Yeah because they should just let those people suffer in their squalor.

I'm no charlie church but Christians do more to help the poor and the sick than any other religion. Just take a drive around your own home town. There are no "muslim, atheist, jewish, hindu soup kitchens."

If you think you're special get out there and help people. Until then STFU. These people have more bravery and courage then you'll ever have. And they're doing more to help the world than you'll ever do.
Don't even begin to act like atheists have never helped the homeless. It's easy to do the most of something when you're a majority.
 

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My question is, why weren't all these underground churches just licensed? There are programs to get them legalized so they won't get raided, right? They were breaking the law to preach in a church, when they could have gotten themselves licensed and preached just the same. That is how it works, right? Or is there a clash between what the government there says you can teach as a Christian church?
 

Thesolcity

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EDIT: Ah, didn't get all of that post in. Can only do so much when you're temporarily on an iPod I suppose. Anyway, my apologies to the one I quoted and if anything I see this event possibly being used as propaganda to "protect the freedoms of the west.".

chao1212 said:
jerome27 said:
anonkit said:
I wonder why these Christian missionaries always prey on "poor" and "less educated" communities.

rolleyes.gif


Yeah because they should just let those people suffer in their squalor.

I'm no charlie church but Christians do more to help the poor and the sick than any other religion. Just take a drive around your own home town. There are no "muslim, atheist, jewish, hindu soup kitchens."

If you think you're special get out there and help people. Until then STFU. These people have more bravery and courage then you'll ever have. And they're doing more to help the world than you'll ever do.
Don't even begin to act like atheists have never helped the homeless. It's easy to do the most of something when you're a majority.

What puzzles me more is that he said of any religion, then listed atheism, is the absence of belief a belief in absence? Explodes the mind, really.
 

Jakob95

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jerome27 said:
anonkit said:
I wonder why these Christian missionaries always prey on "poor" and "less educated" communities.

rolleyes.gif


Yeah because they should just let those people suffer in their squalor.

I'm no charlie church but Christians do more to help the poor and the sick than any other religion. Just take a drive around your own home town. There are no "muslim, atheist, jewish, hindu soup kitchens."

If you think you're special get out there and help people. Until then STFU. These people have more bravery and courage then you'll ever have. And they're doing more to help the world than you'll ever do.
What are you saying learn some facts. I live in New York City and there is a Jewish doctor place next to my house that give checkups and vaccines, shots and all that for free to kids. Most of all hospitals here are owned by Jews without them lots of people won't even have jobs here, and won't have a place to get treated Its funny how when I went to my moms work which is Mount Sinai hospital and some lady there was bashing Jews, and then my mom said without Jews you wouldn't have a job right now, that lady shut up right away. Point here is that you should stop bashing other religions and not only think about your own and live in your little circle.
 

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Jakob95 said:
What are you saying learn some facts. I live in New York City and there is a Jewish doctor place next to my house that give checkups and vaccines, shots and all that for free to kids. Most of all hospitals here are owned by Jews without them lots of people won't even have jobs here, and won't have a place to get treated Its funny how when I went to my moms work which is Mount Sinai hospital and some lady there was bashing Jews, and then my mom said without Jews you wouldn't have a job right now, that lady shut up right away. Point here is that you should stop bashing other religions and not only think about your own and live in your little circle.

If I could click a "like button" this would be the post to click it on!
 

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jerome27 said:
I'm no charlie church but Christians do more to help the poor and the sick than any other religion. Just take a drive around your own home town. There are no "muslim, atheist, jewish, hindu soup kitchens."

If you think you're special get out there and help people. Until then STFU. These people have more bravery and courage then you'll ever have. And they're doing more to help the world than you'll ever do.
Oh God, who the fuck cares what religion they are. I'm not interested if one religion helps people more than the other, if they help people, they fucking help people. Why do we have to make a fucking distinction between them?! If they're soup kitchens, then they are. I don't care if they're Christian or Muslim or Scientology soup kitchens, I just care if they help the fucking people or not.

If I ever visit Israel, I'll check how many Christian soup kitchens there are.
 

DSGamer64

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Evangelism in itself should be a criminal offence though, especially in the USA. You wonder why there are some really hardcore right wingers in America, it's because of Evangelism.

Christians just try to get attention by helping people and really just do it because they have a false sense of security and believe that helping people who should be able to help themselves will somehow get them into heaven. I'd disagree that any other religion doesn't help people out, seeing as how most (at least around here) tend to help people of their own faith and country of origin. A lot of disasters in places where some of the biggest religions come from, especially Sikhs, those people help out those in their home country, yet it goes unnoticed because the sad reality is that most white people couldn't give a crap about other cultures. Kinda funny that those kinds of people come to Canada for a better life and they get it, yet they are still deeply rooted to their home land and help out those in need while being valuable members of society as well.
 

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DSGamer64 said:
Evangelism in itself should be a criminal offence though, especially in the USA. You wonder why there are some really hardcore right wingers in America, it's because of Evangelism.

Christians just try to get attention by helping people and really just do it because they have a false sense of security and believe that helping people who should be able to help themselves will somehow get them into heaven. I'd disagree that any other religion doesn't help people out, seeing as how most (at least around here) tend to help people of their own faith and country of origin. A lot of disasters in places where some of the biggest religions come from, especially Sikhs, those people help out those in their home country, yet it goes unnoticed because the sad reality is that most white people couldn't give a crap about other cultures. Kinda funny that those kinds of people come to Canada for a better life and they get it, yet they are still deeply rooted to their home land and help out those in need while being valuable members of society as well.
rofl.gif


I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.


If you're going to comment on something you obviously don't know enough about, I suggest you do a little research first.

It makes you look less like a bigot.
 

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ZAFDeltaForce said:
DSGamer64 said:
Evangelism in itself should be a criminal offence though, especially in the USA. You wonder why there are some really hardcore right wingers in America, it's because of Evangelism.

Christians just try to get attention by helping people and really just do it because they have a false sense of security and believe that helping people who should be able to help themselves will somehow get them into heaven. I'd disagree that any other religion doesn't help people out, seeing as how most (at least around here) tend to help people of their own faith and country of origin. A lot of disasters in places where some of the biggest religions come from, especially Sikhs, those people help out those in their home country, yet it goes unnoticed because the sad reality is that most white people couldn't give a crap about other cultures. Kinda funny that those kinds of people come to Canada for a better life and they get it, yet they are still deeply rooted to their home land and help out those in need while being valuable members of society as well.
rofl.gif


I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.


If you're going to comment on something you obviously don't know enough about, I suggest you do a little research first.

It makes you look less like a bigot.
Just putting it out there, but if you're going to comment as you have claiming someone to be incorrect and misinformed, i suggest you post some information proving your point and helping them learn. It makes you look less like an obnoxious douchebag.
 

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DSGamer64 said:
Christians just try to get attention by helping people and really just do it because they have a false sense of security and believe that helping people who should be able to help themselves will somehow get them into heaven.

lolwut?

Are you sure about that? Cause that's quite a large assumption to believe every single one of those millions of helping Christians are attention seekers.

I don't give a fuck what their motive is. If it's to get to heaven or to offer it to your forest spirit or as part of a sacrificial journey to find your inner self-being, it doesn't matter. What I really care about is that it's contributing to society.
 

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From the source post, particularly "China requires all religious groups to register and accept Communist Party oversight," I'm going to interpret that as Christian groups/churches are allowed to be in China, but only if the government is overseeing their practice.

If this is true, and there isn't any more to it, then I see no reason for these churches to remain underground. By staying underground they're disrespecting the authority God put over them.
 

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An illegal church isn't really a good idea. Why is it actually against human rights? Because from what I did read, I understood that they didn't register their church, and that is illegal.
 

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antwill said:
ZAFDeltaForce said:
DSGamer64 said:
Evangelism in itself should be a criminal offence though, especially in the USA. You wonder why there are some really hardcore right wingers in America, it's because of Evangelism.

Christians just try to get attention by helping people and really just do it because they have a false sense of security and believe that helping people who should be able to help themselves will somehow get them into heaven. I'd disagree that any other religion doesn't help people out, seeing as how most (at least around here) tend to help people of their own faith and country of origin. A lot of disasters in places where some of the biggest religions come from, especially Sikhs, those people help out those in their home country, yet it goes unnoticed because the sad reality is that most white people couldn't give a crap about other cultures. Kinda funny that those kinds of people come to Canada for a better life and they get it, yet they are still deeply rooted to their home land and help out those in need while being valuable members of society as well.
rofl.gif


I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.


If you're going to comment on something you obviously don't know enough about, I suggest you do a little research first.

It makes you look less like a bigot.
Just putting it out there, but if you're going to comment as you have claiming someone to be incorrect and misinformed, i suggest you post some information proving your point and helping them learn. It makes you look less like an obnoxious douchebag.

The person he was replying to said some very hurtful things about Christian people as a whole with no basis whatsoever and did not even provide information or even an example, this is described as flaming, I guess he just decided to flame back.
 

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worlok375 said:
antwill said:
ZAFDeltaForce said:
DSGamer64 said:
Evangelism in itself should be a criminal offence though, especially in the USA. You wonder why there are some really hardcore right wingers in America, it's because of Evangelism.

Christians just try to get attention by helping people and really just do it because they have a false sense of security and believe that helping people who should be able to help themselves will somehow get them into heaven. I'd disagree that any other religion doesn't help people out, seeing as how most (at least around here) tend to help people of their own faith and country of origin. A lot of disasters in places where some of the biggest religions come from, especially Sikhs, those people help out those in their home country, yet it goes unnoticed because the sad reality is that most white people couldn't give a crap about other cultures. Kinda funny that those kinds of people come to Canada for a better life and they get it, yet they are still deeply rooted to their home land and help out those in need while being valuable members of society as well.
rofl.gif


I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.


If you're going to comment on something you obviously don't know enough about, I suggest you do a little research first.

It makes you look less like a bigot.
Just putting it out there, but if you're going to comment as you have claiming someone to be incorrect and misinformed, i suggest you post some information proving your point and helping them learn. It makes you look less like an obnoxious douchebag.

The person he was replying to said some very hurtful things about Christian people as a whole with no basis whatsoever and did not even provide information or even an example, this is described as flaming, I guess he just decided to flame back.
Firstly yes, I read the quoted text, you're just overreacting, nothing he said was that bad that required him to respond in the manner that he did. Just because you or he may believe them to be flaming doesn't make it right to flame back...
 

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TehSkull said:
From the source post, particularly "China requires all religious groups to register and accept Communist Party oversight," I'm going to interpret that as Christian groups/churches are allowed to be in China, but only if the government is overseeing their practice.

If this is true, and there isn't any more to it, then I see no reason for these churches to remain underground. By staying underground they're disrespecting the authority God put over them.

You would be correct if you China was a country that actually cared about its citizens. When you think about China, you need to look way beyond the surface. Thinking in Bizarro world way is probably the best way to really understand what's going on there.

The reality is that the 'registration' process is simply there to weed people out. Basically you apply, you get denied, then are put in a nice database where you will be tracked by the police to ensure you're arrested. The alternative is to basically pay off your official in order for your 'application' to be approved. It is the method they are currently using to shut down all the Falun Gong practices as well. They simply deny registration to everyone, except those that are paying them well enough.

This is basically the same thing they did when people were 'applying' to be in the 'approved protest zones' during the Olympics. "yes we totally have a legitimate way for you to protest, simply apply and you'll be ok". You'll note that NO ONE ever got a permit to do so. And those that did were basically signing themselves up to be harassed or beaten by police

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/world/as...2.15242827.html

You can see why having to go 'underground' is basically a necessity.
 

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