Children being sexually abused, given psychotropic drugs in ICE detention centers

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Song of storms

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You're not listening. We're not helping anyone in poverty, if anything we've been slowly eliminating social safety nets under Trump, and that's a Republican tradition dating all the way back to Reagan closing down all mental health treatment centers. At the same time, this country has the resources to instantly fix the problem for our own people and anyone living here under asylum/naturalized citizenship, we just choose to spend that money on tax breaks for corporations instead of doing anything to lift up the middle/lower classes. There are way more empty houses across America than there are homeless people. It's just a choice we make to follow the hypocritical rule set of this pyramid scheme-style capitalism. An empathy gap and a short-sightedness. The next economic crash isn't far off, which is why the rich are vacuuming up so much money while they can, so that they feel insulated when it does happen. Good luck to everybody below a certain level of job security/income at that point.
Oh, so this is what's all about! You just want to go against Trump. Because things like food stamps have solved everything and absolutely not been a burden for the public debt.

I know that a lot of people on the left side of the spectrum at least have been causing a ruckus about treatment of prisoners for ages now, so that's really not true...
Rape jokes aren't funny unless done to someone in jail. Let that sink in.
 

WeedZ

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Oh, so this is what's all about! You just want to go against Trump. Because things like food stamps have solved everything and absolutely not been a burden for the public debt.
It kills me when people bitch about welfare. Everyone hates a single mother that gets like 400$ a month to feed her children but no one bats an eye at people like Jeff bezos and bill gates that could give something like 7 thousand families 100,000$ dollars a year and never notice the money was missing. Who could never spend their money in 200 lifetimes. You guys bitch about the poor, I think the rich are disgusting.
 

Song of storms

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God, I am... SO convinced that you're part of a Russian troll network or something, just based on the responses you've been giving me so far
That's some broad accusation for having told an objective truth, don't you think?
People have been protesting dark humor jokes all the time. Some rightfully so, some maybe went too far, but rape jokes in prison are still everywhere.

It kills me when people bitch about welfare. Everyone hates a single mother that gets like 400$ a month to feed her children but no one bats an eye at people like Jeff bezos and bill gates that could give something like 7 thousand families 100,000$ dollars a year and never notice the money was missing. Who could never spend their money in 200 lifetimes. You guys bitch about the poor, I think the rich are disgusting.
I'm not against food stamps. I just think that it could have handed better, with less waste. Less waste = more people to help. And calling Bill Gates out when he's done so much to improve life to people worldwide isn't something nice.
 
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Xzi

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Oh, so this is what's all about! You just want to go against Trump. Because things like food stamps have solved everything and absolutely not been a burden for the public debt.
Of course you'd equate any form of public assistance with food stamps. And no, they absolutely are not nearly as big a drain on the national budget as corporate welfare is. Like, not even 1/1,000,000th of the drain.

"We can't afford infrastructure revitalization! Betsy DeVos needs her eleventh 200' yacht!"
 
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TotalInsanity4

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That's some broad accusation for having told an objective truth, don't you think?
People have been protesting dark humor jokes all the time. Some rightfully so, some maybe went too far, but rape jokes in prison are still everywhere.
That's great, has almost virtually nothing to do with what was being discussed
 

the_randomizer

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It kills me when people bitch about welfare. Everyone hates a single mother that gets like 400$ a month to feed her children but no one bats an eye at people like Jeff bezos and bill gates that could give something like 7 thousand families 100,000$ dollars a year and never notice the money was missing. Who could never spend their money in 200 lifetimes. You guys bitch about the poor, I think the rich are disgusting.

What does piss me off about food stamps and welfare is when some greedy twat uses it to buy cigarettes and other drugs. Those are the people that need punishment by removing their benefits.
 

Song of storms

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Of course you'd equate any form of public assistance with food stamps. And no, they absolutely are not nearly as big a drain on the national budget as corporate welfare is. Like, not even 1/1,000,000th of the drain.

"We can't afford infrastructure revitalization! Betsy DeVos needs her eleventh 200' yacht!"
In 2002 corporate welfare cost $170 billion to taxpayers. Food stamps alone almost $71. If you can find a more updated version of the price for corporate welfare I found then go for it, but I highly doubt that the government pays 170 quadrillion dollars to bail corporations out.
Also, while there are some scum businesses that take advantage of the system, a lot of others don't. Maybe stop buying stuff from businesses that take advantage of our taxes and you'll see their behavior change. They do this because they know that they get away with it. Not to mention that part of said money is given back with taxes.
That's great, has almost virtually nothing to do with what was being discussed
"People complain about this but do nothing for people in jail that are treated worse"
"I know some person who doesn't agree so it's not true"
"What you said is so bullshit that we can see how rape in jail is funny and not a taboo subject at all"
"RUSSIAN BOT"

See?
 

osaka35

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I'm not against food stamps. I just think that it could have handed better, with less waste. Less waste = more people to help. And calling Bill Gates out when he's done so much to improve life to people worldwide isn't something nice.
Waste usually comes in the form of those trying to ensure only "good" people get it, or only those who have earned it get it (or: arbitrary hoops that fly in the face of research). If you really want to reduce waste, and make social programs work to the benefit of the free market, you should look into Universal Basic Income. Kurzgesagt has a good video on the matter
 
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Xzi

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In 2002 corporate welfare cost $170 billion to taxpayers. Food stamps alone almost $71. If you can find a more updated version of the price for corporate welfare I found then go for it, but I highly doubt that the government pays 170 quadrillion dollars to bail corporations out.
Also, while there are some scum businesses that take advantage of the system, a lot of others don't. Maybe stop buying stuff from businesses that take advantage of our taxes and you'll see their behavior change. They do this because they know that they get away with it. Not to mention that part of said money is given back with taxes.
Corporations have armies of lawyers and lobbyists that negotiate their tax rate to near zero. For Trump's corporate tax cuts alone we're adding as much as 5.5 trillion to the debt over the next ten years.

http://time.com/4758411/donald-trump-tax-plan-debt-cost/

Now he's considering another $100 billion in unilateral tax cuts for the wealthy, many of whom already benefited from the corporate tax cuts.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/30/us/politics/trump-tax-cuts-rich.html

So adding to your number, $170 billion plus ~$650 billion per year in unneeded tax cuts means corporate welfare is costing us upwards of $800 billion a year in debt. Yeah, my number was an exaggeration, but one year of corporate welfare is still about eleven years of food stamps.
 
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Chary

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What does piss me off about food stamps and welfare is when some greedy twat uses it to buy cigarettes and other drugs. Those are the people that need punishment by removing their benefits.
Most states have SNAP cards. Unless you have multiple kids and are a single mother, then you can get TANF cash, but it's highly unlikely. You have to be really needy and have kids in your household, and prove you're using the money right. SNAP means you can only buy food, and specific types of food, at that. My dad was on SNAP for a while, and I used to help him budget his food stamp amount. You can't use "food stamps" on prepared meals (aka expensive rotisserie chickens or sushi) or cigs/beer/lotto. They'll deny the entire purchase if you put it in your cart.

Some cities have fast food that take SNAP, however, which is about as "wasteful" as one can get with those benefits.

It's piss easy to get SNAP, sure, but that's why they make it so strict to use. You can't transfer your balance, and if you wanted to sell your card for pure cash to buy beer, you'd have to trust someone to go into a store, use your specific card, use your pin, return the card to you, and then pay you cash. And you'll probably get half the amount in cash than the food stamps are worth if you find a patsy to do that for you.

Plus, if you're under age 60 or don't have kids, you run out of SNAP after 6 months, and you can't really get it easily again. I had to re-file with my dad constantly, and the state of Texas only granted him food stamps because he's a senior citizen.
 
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Song of storms

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Waste usually comes in the form of those trying to ensure only "good" people get it, or only those who have earned it get it (or: arbitrary hoops that fly in the face of research). If you really want to reduce waste, and make social programs work to the benefit of the free market, you should look into Universal Basic Income. Kurzgesagt has a good video on the matter
The video claims that the stereotype of the lazy poor person is wrong. I agree, but it's missing the point that a lot of people under the line of poverty are so because of mental issues or addictions. You don't solve issues like that by throwing money at them to potentially fund criminal organizations.

Not only that, but who's going to pay for UBI? The rich? Now, why would a person work their ass off to reach a high risk job with a high income only to be cut down enough to let the stress and time not worth it?
Corporations have armies of lawyers and lobbyists that negotiate their tax rate to near zero. For Trump's corporate tax cuts alone we're adding as much as 5.5 trillion over the next ten years.

http://time.com/4758411/donald-trump-tax-plan-debt-cost/

Now he's considering another $100 billion in unilateral tax cuts for the wealthy, many of whom already benefited from the corporate tax cuts.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/30/us/politics/trump-tax-cuts-rich.html

So adding to your number, $170 billion plus ~$650 billion per year in unneeded tax cuts means corporate welfare is costing us upwards of $800 billion a year in debt. Yeah, my number was an exaggeration, but one year of corporate welfare is still about 11 years of food stamps.
Tax cuts aren't money that were spent though. And the 1% is still paying a lot more taxes than the 99%.
 

Xzi

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Tax cuts aren't money that were spent though. And the 1% is still paying a lot more taxes than the 99%.
Tax cuts add to the national debt all the same, you can't be idiotic and give them out like candy. That was a big part of the last economic crash, and it'll be a big part of the next one too.
 

Song of storms

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Tax cuts add to the national debt all the same, you can't be idiotic and give them out like candy. That was a big part of the last economic crash, and it'll be a big part of the next one too.
Then protest, boycott, get a list of the companies that benefit the most from those tax cuts without giving anything back and call them out. People need to start caring about companies and boycott the ones doing this crap. But don't act like other wastes of money are "less bad" because, as I said, the 1% still pays a lot more taxes than the 99%.
 

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Most states have SNAP cards. Unless you have multiple kids and are a single mother, then you can get TANF cash, but it's highly unlikely. You have to be really needy and have kids in your household, and prove you're using the money right. SNAP means you can only buy food, and specific types of food, at that. My dad was on SNAP for a while, and I used to help him budget his food stamp amount. You can't use "food stamps" on prepared meals (aka expensive rotisserie chickens or sushi) or cigs/beer/lotto. They'll deny the entire purchase if you put it in your cart.

Some cities have fast food that take SNAP, however, which is about as "wasteful" as one can get with those benefits.

It's piss easy to get SNAP, sure, but that's why they make it so strict to use. You can't transfer your balance, and if you wanted to sell your card for pure cash to buy beer, you'd have to trust someone to go into a store, use your specific card, use your pin, return the card to you, and then pay you cash. And you'll probably get half the amount in cash than the food stamps are worth if you find a patsy to do that for you.

Plus, if you're under age 60 or don't have kids, you run out of SNAP after 6 months, and you can't really get it easily again. I had to re-file with my dad constantly, and the state of Texas only granted him food stamps because he's a senior citizen.

Oh...didn't know that. Whoops. =/
 
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TotalInsanity4

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What does piss me off about food stamps and welfare is when some greedy twat uses it to buy cigarettes and other drugs. Those are the people that need punishment by removing their benefits.
You can't do that, and the people who are make up a fraction of the 1.3%* of welfare users (actual statistic) that are commiting welfare fraud by selling their stamps to other people (who presumably also need them if they're buying them) for money to buy those things

Edit: also, as a retail employee I was just recently in a position to see regulations on WIC benefits get stricter; a single mother with two kids came in and made a purchase of ONLY infant food (think pureed baby food, puff "cereal," formula, etc) that until then had all been covered, and her total bill came to $45 and some change. She ran her benefits card and I told her there was still $9.90 left on her bill that needed to be paid, and she looked a little shocked and panicked because she had no way of paying for it otherwise. So I called a manager over and we spent quite literally 10 minutes going through the total trying to figure out what hadn't been covered, and it turned out that she had bought 10 1oz (or something like that) baby food jars that were $0.99 each that her benefits advisor had told her literally a week earlier would be covered by her card. Fortunately it was a happy ending, because she was shopping ahead of time in bulk and didn't need everything immediately, and was super chill the entire time if not nervous, but it left everyone involved scratching their heads as to why her benefits card wouldn't cover that particular brand one week later
 
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Xzi

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Then protest, boycott, get a list of the companies that benefit the most from those tax cuts without giving anything back and call them out. People need to start caring about companies and boycott the ones doing this crap. But don't act like other wastes of money are "less bad" because, as I said, the 1% still pays a lot more taxes than the 99%.
It doesn't matter if they pay more, they aren't paying their full share. At the same time they exploit them for cheap labor, corporations want you to pretend that Mexicans are the cause of all your woes.

If it was a simple matter of picking and choosing which businesses to frequent, the issue would've been solved by now. The bigger problem is a revolving door of corruption between corporate lobbyists and government officials. Crony capitalism that just gets perpetuated by people ignorantly voting against their own interests.
 

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You can't do that, and the people who are make up a fraction of the 0.01% of welfare users (actual statistic) that are commiting welfare fraud by selling their stamps to other people (who presumably also need them if they're buying them) for money to buy those things
Improper welfare payments, including fraud, are estimated to be 10.1% of all federal welfare payments made and totaled $71.5 billion in fiscal year 2015. This estimate is based on reports from the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) , The General Accounting Office (GAO) [ii], and other federal agencies. Seven of the Welfare Programs make the OMB list of the top thirteen federal programs estimated to be “high error programs” - programs with improper payments greater than $750 million annually.
http://federalsafetynet.com/welfare-fraud.html
I'd like to see that statistic you mentioned.
It doesn't matter if they pay more, they aren't paying their full share. At the same time they exploit them for cheap labor, corporations want you to pretend that Mexicans are the cause of all your woes.

If it was a simple matter of picking and choosing which businesses to frequent, the issue would've been solved by now. The bigger problem is a revolving door of corruption between corporate lobbyists and government officials. Crony capitalism that just gets perpetuated by people ignorantly voting against their own interests.
The issue with large businesses can't be solved until people start finally supporting local businesses and companies with no shady procedures.


EDIT: I'm going to sleep so sorry if I don't reply immediately after this[/quote]
 
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Xzi

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The issue with large businesses can't be solved until people start finally supporting local businesses and companies with no shady procedures.
The issue can't be solved until laws and regulations stop favoring anti-competitive practices and large corporations buying out all competition. In other words, never. We were mega-fucked the second Citizens United passed, and every president since then that has pushed for corporate favoritism over the well-being of American citizens just speeds our demise.
 

TotalInsanity4

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http://federalsafetynet.com/welfare-fraud.html
I'd like to see that statistic you mentioned.
You did catch me there, I was going from memory. Last I remembered legitimate users equated to 99.9% (which would mean my figure should have been 0.1%, I added an extra 0 erroneously), but I guess the accurate statistic is 1.3%

Regardless, though, it's DEFINITELY not 10.1%, and I wouldn't exactly trust a website on the matter that's advertising a book on its toolbar and has a dead link where "welfare issues" should be
 
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