Channels vs ELFs

Discussion in 'Wii - Hacking' started by teq, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. teq
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    teq GBAtemp Maniac

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    While channels might be more convinient, I'd like to remind you all that the Wii's NAND has a lifespan that's only slightly higher than your SD card. Using the NAND less, in favor of reading homebrew and roms from an SD card is your best bet to ensure the longevity of your Wii.

    Granted, by the time your Wii's NAND starts to fail at retaining your data, it'll be as old as the NES is now... but for a lot of you, it'll be the only access you have to NES games.
     


  2. SkH

    SkH GBAtemp Maniac

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    W-whaatt??!!

    So how much my Wii has got until death??!!
     
  3. the_real_tonton

    the_real_tonton Member

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    Homebrews can be launched by 2 ways :

    -Twilight Hack which needs to run the DVD drive while using and deteriorates it after a few time
    -Homebrew channel launchers which has the same issues than the channels you've spoke

    The twilight Hack affects DVD drive by turnig during usage and even if it doesn't, the time when your NAND will be down, it should affects your wii's firmare which is stored in.
    The homebrew channel is stored in NAND memory and will also be affected by the time, the issue is the same that all wads.

    NES games are fully playables on PC and will never be lost by a large size of gamers I don't think that we needs to fear about a loss of the game collection of one of the best video game system.
     
  4. linkinworm

    linkinworm GBAtemp Maniac

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    useing wont give it a lesser lifesspan, samsung made a whole documentation about it, and that because it doesnt write to the same sectors everytime, you device could last for ever basicaly, stop trying to scare people
     
  5. ciama81

    ciama81 GBAtemp Regular

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    I appreciate the ease of updating or adding new programs to the HBC via elf files. I can simply take the sd card and overwrite to update, or drop in a new folder for a new app. Everything is updated when I boot up because I don't have to then install/uninstall wads. I guess wads seem like an extra step to me, but I think the technology and the community having access to installing/uninstalling wads is a great thing [​IMG].
     
  6. teq
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    teq GBAtemp Maniac

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    Uh... all flash memory currently does this. It's called non-sequential reading/writing.

    The problem with this, is that most devices with embedded flash memories have file systems that are primitive. So, even though the primary address might not be the same, the addresses that preceed it are always going to be in order. This effectively cancels out any non-sequential algorithm the flash has in place.


    For the record, the lifetime is gauged with this taken into account, so don't think for a second that the NAND will outlast an SD card.
     
  7. the_real_tonton

    the_real_tonton Member

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    Just a question teq, what do you uses to launch homebrews ?
     
  8. teq
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    teq GBAtemp Maniac

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    Considering I can get a 2GB SD card for $10, I use the Homebrew Channel.

    The only time I ever use a channel is if I'm playing a WiiWare game or using the system channels.


    If I had a drivechip, everything would be on a DVD, as it would be the best way of preserving the NAND.
     
  9. the_real_tonton

    the_real_tonton Member

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    Where do you think is stored the Homebrew Channel ? Do you think that this channel is a sort of superchannel and shouldn't be affected by the NAND issues you're speaking about. Check wikipedia to see what's the memory used by SD-Cards, you'll see that it's also NAND memory...
     
  10. WiiCrazy

    WiiCrazy Be water my friend!

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    So problem with the flash memories is that you are limited when writing to the memory, reading is not limited. There will eventually be a limit to the channels that you can install that the capacity of the memory will not allow you further. Thinking Nintendo has just 100 wiiware in the queue ready to be released, vc releases and all the saves that repeatedly written, I think there is no reason to make this into a special problem and categorize as "channels vs elfs".

    Maybe they have written an abstraction layer onto the filesystem that equalizes the write ratio of the minimum units of memory.

    They don't seem to care about the 512MB memory limit either,

    quoting from http://wii.ign.com/articles/877/877761p1.html

    IGN: We recently had to delete half the games and Channels on our systems to make room for two WiiWare titles. Lack of storage space has become a huge problem. What're your thoughts on this issue? Will Nintendo address it soon?

    Tom Prata: Consumers have the option of either deleting the game and downloading it again for no additional Wii Points, or transferring the game from Wii to external SD memory card
     
  11. SkH

    SkH GBAtemp Maniac

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    Yeah, there comes why Nintendo is so cheap.

    Like, in the Wii now, they are gone too far, as far as I see.

    Like, from the beginning, the graphics. There's really not much improvement from the GameCube's graphics. Sometimes it's not enough, I mean, it should be better.

    Then, the Wiimote. Just WHY THE HELL they didn't built it with built-in rechargeable Li-Ion battery??!! AAs are like old age. And charging from USB for example, hey, SONY did it with PS3. Sheesh... [​IMG]" [​IMG]

    The Nunchuk. What a ... um, what the HELL is that wire doing there?! If the Wiimote is wireless, then why not the Nunchuk too?! Aaaww!!

    Classic Controller. Same. WTH wire?!!

    And now, then, the built-in memory. 512 MB?! Seriously!! The standard now in SDs are nearly 4 GB, what the hell are doing here that 512 MB?!!
    Yes, I had some space issues too. Not once. Jeez!!!

    And also there's some games too... like, Mario Kart Wii. During in one race, when you get to 1st place, they attack you non-stop with every damned piece of ... garbage. [​IMG]

    So, you get my point. Nintendo become too cheap and too lazy and it's clearly noticeable in quality.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Rice923

    Rice923 GBAtemp Regular

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    quick question, what is NAND and what does it have to do with all this lifespan issue?
     
  13. jesushchrist

    jesushchrist Banned

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    Your wii internal memory, and if it dies, you can say bye bye wii.

    ALSO!

    I AM JESUS HEAR ME ROAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Jesus has spoken.
     
  14. Frederica Bernkastel

    Frederica Bernkastel WebPerf and PWA advocate; @antoligy on Twitter

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    There not that bad. Its just umm... lack of innovation?
     
  15. SkH

    SkH GBAtemp Maniac

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    No, it's actually more than that.
     
  16. berlinka

    berlinka You have sustained a lethal injury.

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    This all sounds very plausible in theory but seriously it sounds more like "Let's scare some noobs"... I remember clearly in 1988 they did tests with Compact Discs, and the conclusion was that they said the CD was a rubbish medium because, just like a videotape, the data on a CD would eventually fade away, so they said a Compact Disc would probably have a lifespan of only 8 YEARS! I couldn't believe it at the time. I was almost to the point of not buying a CD-player, devastated by the idea that my precious CD's would eventually end up in the bin.... How wrong they were....
     
  17. Eternal Myst

    Eternal Myst Back from the Myst.

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    I have a bomb alallalallala
    My Wii has a lifespan?
    But I love my precious baby!
     
  18. SkH

    SkH GBAtemp Maniac

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    Well yeah, same here... [​IMG]
     
  19. skweezer

    skweezer Member

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    the guy that has started this thead is a noob. yes the wii's nand has a lifespan like all things with nand do, but you wont reach its limit in your lifetime even if you try. so stop trying to scare people [​IMG]
     
  20. kedest

    kedest GBAtemp Psycho!

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    i'm running everything from .elf files through the homebrew channel. Not because of worrries of the wii's flash memory life span, but just because I think Nintendo may not like seeing things like 'SNES emulator' in the play history.