CFW and Piracy. What do you think about them?

[Deleted User]

Don't they say we're buying a license, not the hardware/software?

i think that only aplies to SW, as doing such a thing for HW would be leasing, and consoles arent leased, they are sold

 

[godreborn]

I think where they get you is the terms of service when going through initial setup.

 

[Deleted User]

not buying is not buying, pirating is stealing regardless, there's a difference, even if you weren't going to buy it it's still theft, because you wouldn't play it if you can't run a romloader, and download the pirated (illegal/ copyrighted) rom for free, because you won't buy the game, you'll play it only if you pirate (steal) a copy of it, it's called copyright law and IP theft

you can pirate roms and whatnot, like i say everyone does it to a degree, but when you get a DMCA notice, or a C&D from your isp, don't be surprised, normally you're fine, but if companies really want to, you can be held liable just as much as tx, remember possession is 9/10 of the law


it may get to the point where they fuck it, if you run cfw we'll effectively brick/ban your console from running any of our software, most people don't read terms of use anyway, hacking/and cfw is included on these

stealing would imply the original is lost, if i go to a retail store and take, lets say, a can of coke without paying, the store owner will not be able to sell that can of coke, its a loss, on the other hand, developers have infinite copies of whatever software, pirating still leaves them with infinite copies of whatever they are selling, they have the original

 

[wormdood]

first of all, you sound butthurt? it hilarious cuz wasn't even referring to you in that post, i was speaking in general terms

then why quote me genius

tl;dr = too long didn't read, mean i've summarized your point
for those who aren't reading all of that

tldr means too long didn't read as in you didn't read but I assume you did because you try to summarize it for the rest of gbatemp emphasis on try

what im saying is a generalization
if you're taking it personal it's not my fault, you may be a bit insecure

again why bother to quote me to say a generalization why use terms like you if you are not talking to me like those who consider emulation Homebrew and not piracy you are only lying to yourself bro I know anybody who actually reads this will believe that you weren't talking to me

its not illegal to mod your console, stealing is illegal, you can run all the open source homebrew you want, it's using that same knowlege to download rom copies you don't legally own, like you say 1's and 0s still has value, its called copyright theft, and intellectual property theft

this is again where things begin to clash yes it's perfectly legal to play legitimate Homebrew but not when playing said home bro forces you to circumvent anti-piracy measures inside a pre-existing console once you do that it becomes illegal. And guess what as X advance and consoles become more advanced they started putting anti-piracy measures into more than just the the games themselves they started including anti-piracy measures in the consoles and in case you still don't believe me you're still mistaken bro look at tx ... the FBI doesn't bust you for selling products that do legal things

second i'm just saying from a dev pov (i'm an independent dev for ninty so i can partly speak on this), they don't play with this kind of stuff, just saying companies in the computer and IT field won't hire you if you are knowingly open to piracy and things of such nature, if thats the career choice you want, and how secure is cybersecurity if they hire a bunch of pro piracy programmers/engineers?

lol independent means not affiliated with so no you can't speak for Nintendo in any capacity and if you truly are affiliated with Nintendo in any fashion than you would realize that in hiring you they do hire people who used to Pirate so shut your trap bro

yeah i used to pirate everything, but i got older, and pay bills and work, so i buy my games, so the devs that write code make a living that deal with debt and bills that have to get paid too

yeah here's that proof that you used to pirate all I have to do is say that it's in my past as well and then guess what I can get that job thanks for the recommendation bro

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

stealing would imply the original is lost, if i go to a retail store and take, lets say, a can of coke without paying, the store owner will not be able to sell that can of coke, its a loss, on the other hand, developers have infinite copies of whatever software, pirating still leaves them with infinite copies of whatever they are selling, they have the original

water water everywhere and not a drop to drink ... really you're example was a more tangible thing before cloning existed now I can make unlimited copies of my sheep and that doesn't mean that cheap clones have no value and you can steal my copied sheep

 

[Risteing]

• Do you use CFW?

Yes, every console I have runs a CFW (if enable). If not, then I use HEN (PS4) or some Flashcard (Primarly retro consoles)

• Do you think CFW is wrong?

Absolutly not. CFW gives you some control over that is imposible by... oficial means (like controlling your Nintendo with SONY controllers or streams your screen to the PC).

• Do you think piracy is wrong?

Not necesarly. Ok, from the legal point of view is completly wrong but... what about abandonware? or retro games? Now a lot of companies are re-releasing old games on some fashion and shining package (like mini consoles and stuff) or oficial emulators on their current consoles but... BUT they are not releasing all the games, not even closes.
And also we got world economi problems, like in my country any console and games has a 70% incress value only for taxes (plus shippong and stuff). It is imposible for me to keep buying newers games. But when I can, I do.
And unlisted games like Godzilla for PS4... they are a lot of reasons.

• Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?

Yes. I keep offering CFW to some relatives and friends and the normal answer is "but I dont wanna play Pirate games". Yeah, but you can purchase games if you want. CFW unlocks "another world". Multimedia players for the Wii. Streaming machines with the Switch. Restores features in the PS3. Use the device you like the most in the console you like the most.

And here's the normal "sorry for my english" and stuff.

 

[Deleted User]

water water everywhere and not a drop to drink ... really you're example was a more tangible thing before cloning existed now I can make unlimited copies of my sheep and that doesn't mean that cheap clones have no value and you can steal my copied sheep

because real life cloning isnt free, copying a file is free

 

[wormdood]

because real life cloning isnt free, copying a file is free

the first part of your statement is a fact the second part of your statement is the debate at hand you seem to believe it's free because it cost you yourself nothing for you to copy that file talk to the man who is pressing the button to copy that file and the company he had to pay countless workers to have that file constructed for him it's not free

 

[Deleted User]

the first part of your statement is a fact the second part of your statement is the debate at hand you seem to believe it's free because it cost you yourself nothing for you to copy that file talk to the man who is pressing the button to copy that file and the company he had to pay countless workers to have that file constructed for him it's not free

iboth phyisical and non-physical products take a lot of research, thing is, after all the money on research, physical products still spend money on materials

 

[wormdood]

iboth phyisical and non-physical products take a lot of research, thing is, after all the money on research, physical products still spend money on materials

semantics bro you're saying because one cost more to produce that it's okay to steal the cheaper one that's like saying it's wrong to steal Oreos but Double Stuffed chocolate cookies are perfectly fine for you to steal on the ground that they're cheaper in the version you're used to

 

[Deleted member 668561]

im still a developer, it still affects me too and any software dev, smartass, whether i directly work through ninty or indirectly, i have full sdk and devkit access to their dev network, i can release software that can and will be pirated.... i could leak their entire sdk, aswell as a free copy of unity engine, but i wont, because they can/will take legal action,

its a will power issue,

you still sound very butthurt, and i quoted you as a form of agreement, that why i liked your post,

and keyword is used to pirate, and getting a job for finding exploits is different than for distributing/promoting illegal roms copies, thats why TX got shut down by nintendo, have you been under a rock? that what happens when you openly pirate (and sell it),sx os is a cfw that they sell, that allows you to load and install rom copies, and you have to buy a license key to install it, that's why atmosphere isn't in any heat, they don't support rom loading, you have to add it yourself

datel is the really the only company that has been able to get away with legal homebrew devices, but they cant load roms


btw you sound really douchey and you seem you're such a badass cuz you use cfw and pirate, in the end idc what you do, just don't complain when companies start bricking your consoles for using cfw

they already have clauses in their TOS that's why they can ban you, if you read the tos for any console, modding and hacking is covered, so just update the terms of use, and brick your system



plus learn what second person point of view is


plus you don't know what you're talking about: modding your console is legal
so is jail breaking your phone, obtaining and using pirated code is illegal, you can jtag, softmod your wii or wiiu and jailbreak your playstation thats completly legal to do, downloading rom's and commercial/consumer copyrighted software isn't

you can legally mod your console (in the USA)

but using that modded console to run pirated games is illegal, not because the console is modded, but you have received stolen goods...

its what you use the modded console for, modding it in itself is legal, except for the dev that makes the cfw, they can be held liable, that's why TX team is in jail, thats why atmosphere doesn't support piracy out of the box

 

[Deleted User]

semantics bro you're saying because one cost more to produce that it's okay to steal the cheaper one that's like saying it's wrong to steal Oreos but Double Stuffed chocolate cookies are perfectly fine for you to steal on the ground that they're cheaper in the version you're used to

nah, im saying that because one is infinite by its nature, its ok to take copies, one is limited, so its not ok

 

[Deleted User]

im still a developer, it still affects me

It doesn't help that this website as good as it is, helps folks in hacking their consoles which leads to piracy, but they'd look up a tutorial anywhere else, anyway.

Plus, GBATemp way back used to be a rom site. I still remember that and I LOVED it!

I miss those days and the look GBATemp had.

 

[Deleted member 668561]

maaan nolstalgia, but again hacking your console is legal, running and distributing roms isnt

 

[Cryoraptor]

CFW? Nothing wrong with it whatsoever unless it's breaking laws.

Piracy? If you pirate a game like Minecraft, I'd say that's morally wrong because of the quality of the game and the amount of work the devs put in to making it. A 'game' like SM3DAS? Nintendo doesn't deserve money for that garbage especially when they allegedly used an unofficial emulation tool themselves. Repackaging 3 unmodified ROMs (while actually making them worse) is not £50's worth of work. I could do that in 5 minutes with free ROMs and software available on the internet if I wanted to.

At the end of the day, games that welcome modding stay alive for longer, MC being an example of that. Games that demonise modding end up turning people away, and they pirate the game. Nintendo got it's consoles pirated because it shunned unofficial modding, which incidentally fuelled hackers to mod the console harder as a middle finger which leads to more exploits that pirates can use coming to light. To this day, the Wii has to be one of if not the most modded console in existence. And it's all because Nintendo demonised it without putting in the necessary security to stop hackers from finding exploits. What happens when someone tells you not to do something? You do it. Games that stay pro-consumer and have no problem with mods have a more loyal fanbase and stay relevant for far longer, because the possibilities are endless. Even though Nintendo tried to crack down on it and failed, MKWii, 12 years later is still very much alive, almost entirely because of modding. MK8 and even MK8DX are dying (or long dead in MK8's case) because they have nothing more to offer. With no way to mod the game, people get bored and move on. I stayed interested in MKWii for a long time because I could mod custom textures, play on new custom stages, custom background music, and so on. Meanwhile, I completed 50-mirrorCC on MK8DX and barely picked it up ever again.

 

[wormdood]

@aadz93 have you talked about me with a giant wall post TL DR at least have the decency to use a spoiler... it's not hard

Spoiler

first I never doubted you were developer heck anyone over the age of 18 with an email account can be a developer for Nintendo if they wanted also relax dude no one's telling you to leak anything and I don't know I had requested from you if like I and I don't know I had requested from you when as I said before I could simply sign up if I wanted or download them from that ISO site where they're already available to pirate

Second if you truly liked my post you have an odd way of showing it coming in trying to be my life coach while not giving me any actual advice

3rd so now your job is what exploit squasher extraordinaire running Nintendo security team over there or something I thought you said you were a software developer developing software for them come on man make up your mind told also you compare TX and atmosphere and they're really not comparable in this context yes they're both CFW for the switch but tx's for sale while atmosphere is not there is a big difference in the scale of the crime also your argument for the inclusion a way to pirate games as the deciding factor and then getting sued is absolutely silly because CFW was free for 3DS and every installation package included a CIA installer yeah. They didn't get sued and they were allowing me 2 install games that I never paid for could it be the fact that as I said tx's selling it and you're not allowed to sell things that are illegal and the reason CFW doesn't get the same treatment is because it's nearly impossible the countdown the number of stolen copies of anything through CFW like it is through TX which keeps a database of its customers

Datel gets away with this because they reverse engineer to allow their own software to be played the difference is CFW use brute force private keys in the system thus circumventing anti-piracy measures already in place I'm repeating myself now that's not legal

I am a douche and I am a badass thank you for noticing but it's not because I use CFW + pirate it's because I give it to you straight and unfiltered some people can't handle that also that's rich bro they are not going to break your console no matter how hard you hack why because in the UK they still have to honor all their service contracts because over there it is legal to install CFW as you on the device and can do whatever you want with it so anyone over there who gets their console bricked will have to get it replaced for free assuming it's still within warranty so a brick code is absolutely out of the question

And you sound silly trying to equate console hack into phone jailbreaking cell phone hasn't been a cell phone since we stopped using flip phones and judges agree with this statement they are computers more than they are phones and computers are open source environments but video game consoles have not been declared computers and are not open source environment in the US court systems eyes

And on your final point i already explained all this but its summary time ... its illegal to install cfw in the usa depending upon the method used to achieve the desired result ie reverse engineering is ruled fair use the reason emulators and datel devices exist, if your cfw installation method is illegal than your operation of unlicensed code is illegal including legal homebrew and no the inclusion of a program to install games has no barring as 3ds cfw had this and the only people who were charged were those who profited like tx who keep good costumer records making it easy to estimate damages which is essential to guilt whereas cfw dev's are much harder targets as they keep 0 record of users and did not make mad money with which to pay court fees and potential restitution...not bundling with a game installation program is not the game changer but just I will agree it does help decrease the likelihood of loosing if a dev were to be sued

see I can say a lot without cluttering the thread its called a spoiler but seriously if you are gonna hit me with another text wall then have the decency to do it in PM or spoilers

maaan nolstalgia, but again hacking your console is legal, running and distributing roms isnt

again hacking your console is not legal because of the methods used to do so it is not reverse-engineered but brute force and there is a difference in the courts eyes ... yeah bleem beat Sony know why because they reverse-engineered (like datel)
and had the program use original ps1 discs

nah, im saying that because one is infinite by its nature, its ok to take copies, one is limited, so its not ok

not really infinite implies that you can do it forever and ever with no loss but as I said before these developers have to pay lots of people in order to get that perfectly replicable file and on top of that not every game continues to exist in a sellable fashion forever simply because of it being digital hence the large list of games delisted from sale on digital storefronts so no it's not infinite for the dev pressing the button it's only infinite for the Thief

 

[Deleted member 668561]

@aadz93 have you talked about me with a giant wall post TL DR at least have the decency to use a spoiler... it's not hard




again hacking your console is not legal because of the methods used to do so it is not reverse-engineered but brute force and there is a difference in the courts eyes ... yeah bleem beat Sony know why because they reverse-engineered (like datel)
and had the program use original ps1 discs
[/SPOILER]

again soft-modding your console to run homebrew code is legal, using that softmodded console to run pirated games copies is illegal, when i buy the console, i own any unique console specific keys, so that's not illegal, however leaking nintendo sony or m$ private signing key is illegal (also consoles don't usually use just one key), i do not have right to posses it, the private key is Nintendo property, once you buy a console, you can legally run your own homebrew, i can use libctru and write any program i want and run it on my console legally, as long as it doesnt run pirated roms, you can run any software legally that of your own original creation, exploiting a bug, which I would have to write my own code for, to properly utilize , isn't illegal, the software bug was there already when i purchased it.

you should learn copyright laws, and IP Laws,

apple tried to go the supreme court, to ban softmodding their devices (jailbreaking), they lost, that happend in 2010, softmodding is legal,

if modding your console was illegal, GBAtemp what have been shut down by now, as many modding and hacking tuts are hosted

https://www.wired.com/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/

you seem to act like you know what you're talking about, it's hilarious to me because you are wrong

plus i don't tell you how to write your posts so i'm not changing they way i write mine


hell google can tell you this:

seems to agree with what i'm saying

you can legally mod your console, you cannot use a modded console to play pirated roms (illegal copies) this also includes romhacks

 

[Pokemon_Tea_Sea_Jee]

When the world becomes a more fair place with Bernie Sanders economics, maybe people will think it is worth buying games instead of pirating them.

 

[Taleweaver]

- ¿Do you use CFW?

On pretty much any device that has it (consoles and handhelds). Heck, I'd install it on my multipurpose oven if it was stable enough and had extra features.

- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
It's dual (see also the answer below). For video game companies, I understand all too well why the creators want to have a "walled garden", as to keep piracy within check. And just throwing out the source code in the hopes that a community will provide the best possible firmware out there is naive (face it: it only attracts coders if it has a wide popularity, which won't happen if your product isn't up to snuff...so you've got to code a OFW anyhow).
However, not everything's consoles and handhelds. I guess I have to point at my old but still reliable sansa disk MP3 player. When I got it for jogging, it was "okay". Serves its purpose fine when you just want to load a playlist that plays MP3 tracks. Still...the OFW is clunky when you're in your jogging outfit wanting to select that one playlist, or when you're running and you "just" want to make a small adjustment.
Enter rockbox. This CFW (for quite some mp3 players, actually, so you might wanna check it out) overhauls the entire GUI to make it...well...what it was supposed to be in the first place, really. From starting to playing is only one or two clicks away. The screen is very small but screen estate is respected. The used color interface has much better contrast (so better readable in outdoor light) and it packs far more features than you'd think. A timer and chronometer are obvious benefits, but you can even play sudoku on that thing (not sure why anyone would want to with those controls, but ey...you can ). Though it might be just me being enthousiast about it, but I swear even battery life and sound quality are better. All in all...that's one example where CFW is a great tool despite no piracy being involved whatsoever (*looks at collection* erm...well...not more than before, that is ).

- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
Short answer: yes. Developers deserve to be paid for their work. Especially if it's a lot of work.
But the sad truth: I pirate quite a bit. Perhaps not as much as others, and I have bought games because I liked them so much (hence why I've still got plastic wrapped copies of e.g. Xenoblade chronicles and the first fallout games), but I won't deny that I do things that are wrong(1). I also eat things that are wrong for my body (potato chips just now). I pretend a heavier workload at work than there is so I can renovate my house while getting paid from work. And I'm guilty of more of those things. Sorry, but I ain't no angel. In writing I try to be honest, but in actions I'm just a selfish asshole.

- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
Yes. See also my reply to the CFW firmware for MP3 players. But as probably said multiple times before (I haven't read much other answers): when I buy a device, it's mine. Manufacturers can go all "it's not intended to be used for XXX", but I say fuck that. Imagine a car salesman who sells you a car but has you sign a 115 page document that includes (among others) that you won't throw out the trash that's filling the trunk. Would you abide by it because you signed? Of course not.
Look...I get that for video games, piracy takes center stage for the reason for CFW. And...not really for bad reasons. Do you really use your 3DS or vita to watch shows on the go? Do you really need YET ANOTHER device to play doom on? And the non-ports for other devices are...well, some certainly outdo the "proof of concept" or "here's my resumé" phase, but still...there's not much of a killer app, if we're honest.

But on other devices? HP once had firmware in their printers that had the cartridges report as empty before they actually were empty so they sold more. I've read about CFW whose only real function was to save battery life. And this is from the top of my head. So no...CFW isn't "just" about piracy. It's foremost actually taking control of your device.




(1): fuck...I'm downloading something from a shady site as we speak
EDIT: LOL...that download failed due to network error. That's karma for you

 

[Deleted member 668561]

- ¿Do you use CFW?



I get that for video games, piracy takes center stage for the reason for CFW. And...not really for bad reasons. Do you really use your 3DS or vita to watch shows on the go? Do you really need YET ANOTHER device to play doom on? And the non-ports for other devices are...well, some certainly outdo the "proof of concept" or "here's my resumé" phase, but still...there's not much of a killer app, if we're honest.

But on other devices? HP once had firmware in their printers that had the cartridges report as empty before they actually were empty so they sold more. I've read about CFW whose only real function was to save battery life. And this is from the top of my head. So no...CFW isn't "just" about piracy. It's foremost actually taking control of your device.

exactly the problem, CFW is great for long term unofficial support, but nowadays people rather focus on getting free games, and associate the scene on that basis, also blame smartphones, as before they came out, home brew kinda filled that niche, i remember using my NDS as a voip phone, to check facebook, play scene made games, watch movies, music, and run various apps, that's why i support homebrew and cfw/homebrew, as it is useful

 

[Deleted User]

@aadz93
not really infinite implies that you can do it forever and ever with no loss but as I said before these developers have to pay lots of people in order to get that perfectly replicable file and on top of that not every game continues to exist in a sellable fashion forever simply because of it being digital hence the large list of games delisted from sale on digital storefronts so no it's not infinite for the dev pressing the button it's only infinite for the Thief

delisting is something the developer has to go out of their way to do, again, there is no extra cost to selling a new copy, and they most likely already made the money they put in back, so any sale after that is just extra money for no work