Can We Stop With The Name Calling Already ...

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by cots, Jun 5, 2019.

  1. Naendow

    Naendow Brick-Master

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    You know that being trans is by far not a mental illness, right? That has been proven 2 years ago or so.
     
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  2. PZT

    PZT Newbie

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    You know who actually has courage? Aurora Wright
    You're all cowards
     
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  3. AmandaRose

    AmandaRose Do what I do. Hold tight and pretend it’s a plan

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    Spot on but I'm no coward myself and Aurora are very similar lol.
     
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  4. Hanafuda

    Hanafuda GBAtemp Addict

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    Except that John Money was the primary 'professional' source for transgender theory at its inception in the late-60's, early-70's. He was basically the original researcher in the field, and the source for these concepts in late-20th/early-21st century western thought. And he liked to pose naked boys in positions of sexual intercourse and take pictures.


    That was a political decision. They vote on it, and keeping their positions and social pressures most certainly influence the vote. The DSM-5 still says mental disorder.
     
    Last edited by Hanafuda, Jun 12, 2019
  5. AmandaRose

    AmandaRose Do what I do. Hold tight and pretend it’s a plan

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    What the vastly outdated Bible of trans haters who ignore key facts in it like it's own recommended treatment for gender dysphoria. And I quote directly from the DSM-5

    [Treatment options for gender dysphoria include counseling, cross-sex hormones, puberty suppression and gender reassignment surgery.]

    Now the DSM-5 was put together by psychiatrists around the world so
    If it truly was a mental disorder why the hell would they they recommend GRS instead of you know actually doing their job and treating this so called mental illness like they would do you know with an actual proper mental illness.

    https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria
     
  6. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    Usually proper screening is what should be done especially if you go to the surgical route, there’s no going back. The problem is activists becoming sensationalists and saying if you don’t affirm your child to transition they will commit suicide. Which is plain emotional manipulation, not true, and the researchers in the suicide studies they cite talk about the limitations of it.





    The fact that over 500 clinicians and researchers had to petition to defend Dr. Zucker should be telling how corrupt it’s become. Dr. Zucker says that the field of gender dysphoria has been corrupted by politics. As Dr. Blanchard says the same thing. Both worked on DSM-5.


    So does Dr. Debrah Soh and I don’t take what Lacius says seriously, especially when his complaint about her is ridiculous. I’m guessing he was talking about this Reddit post since he mention that she was a troll and mentions conversion therapy. It’s just too much a perfect match.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCynical/comments/6i4blw/debra_soh_jumps_the_shark/#thing_t1_dj3ew8d


    When you actually read the article the reddit post was criticizing it answers all of Lacius criticisms that he copied from the Reddit post.

    It clearly says while Gender Identity is flexible in kids it normalizes when they get older. Normalize should answer the criticism. Especially since the majority desist when they get older. So pushing transition before they reach puberty is a bad idea.


    Lacius criticism of Conversion Therapy is also answered in that article. Dr. Debra Soh says it’s not to be conflated with the Therapeutic Approach. And activists are calling it Conversion Therapy to conflate the two as if they are the same, but they are not. It’s also the thoughts of Dr. Ray Blanchard, he also says activists are conflating the two. And also the thoughts of Dr. Zucker that’s it not conversion therapy, which he got fired over. And over 500 clinicians and researchers petition in his defense.

    So it’s not only the thoughts of Dr. Debra Soh, Dr. Ray Blanchard, or Dr. Zucker that are saying this, it’s also the 500+ researchers and clinicians defending what they say.


    And even if Dr. Debra Soh contradicted herself I don’t see how that makes her a troll, I would’ve labeled it as a mistake or not thinking her ideas through instead. And the criticism misses the bigger picture she was talking about which is the conversion therapy thing, and to proceed child transition with caution.
     
    Last edited by SG854, Jun 12, 2019
  7. It was listed as a mental illness for most of human history and was only recently removed as a mental illness for political reasons. It really doesn't make evolutionary/biological sense that someone could be trapped in the wrong body.
     
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  8. notimp

    notimp GBAtemp Addict

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    Hm.

    Why.

    Especially as things arguably arent so clear cut, when it comes to gender - or gender identities. (Subs, doms, cuckolds, cuckqueens, you know the pages on the internets.. ;) )


    Lets take the most impactful step, which is gender reasignment surgery.

    If there exists the manifest urge of that person. If it is connected to psychological strain (so that person really suffering from their condition). First they need a conceptual way out. So you give them the opportunity for that surgery.

    There is nothing that speaks against that.

    Then you make it freaking hard to attain - because they basically have to be at a point, where they give up themselves, before you grant it to them. This you do because of two factors. One - risk of the surgery, on someone that isnt in "physical medical need" for it. Second - if regrets set in, it becomes fucking hard to deal with that.

    But - as it is medically viable - you need the option. And you also need for it to actually be performed. Otherwise you highten structural suffering.

    ("No way out." "Society doenst want me to find peace, ...")

    So there is really absolutely nothing that speaks against having this as a far, far reachable option, at the end of a road that goes through all prior forms of treatment that there are.

    Please acknowledge that. :)

    Certainly not your notion, that it must be horrible to have to neglect advances of a transitioning, or transitioned individual. Those concerns are so tiny in comparison - they might not even count. At all.. ;)


    The part thats actually more problematic is societal recognition. Something that literally anyone would fight for - that identifies themselves as not a normy (dont read too much into the indentify thing - as in SJW lingo).

    If you are in such a minority - its freaking hard to change societies images of your behavior. If you remove stigma - everyone is helped. But with removed stigma should come societal recognition - and if thats not there, if large parts of society cant jump the gap mentally - stuff becomes rather tragic again.

    Now looking at Ls, Gs, and Bs - they managed to change societies and recognize them as part of the norm. It took decades. It can happen. Its not freaking easy. And there are limits. We just don't know where.

    But certainly - they are not at "I might have to be confronted with sexual advances of such an individual once in my lifetime". Not argumentatively. Emotionally they might be. Which is kind of the problem. Its freaking hard to change that - and SJW might not help here.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Jun 12, 2019
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  9. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    By nature's logic, nothing humans do makes sense. Still, there are species who have evolved the ability to change sex, and nearly every species of animal exhibits homosexual behavior. It's a hell of a reach to suggest that no semi-intelligent animal, such as a dolphin, has ever felt as though it was trapped in the wrong body. We can't read their minds, but based on statistics alone it's likely to have occurred way more than once.
     
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  10. Where is the proof that statistics show dolphins have transexual urges? Incidences of homosexuality rise in times of peace for whatever reason, we aren't talking about homosexuality though. We are talking about transexuality. Why was it classified as a mental illness only to be removed from the dsm? Besides that it used to be called Gender Identity Disorder and now it's referred to as Gender Dysphoria. What species has evolved the ability to change sex?
     
  11. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    Like I said, we can't read their minds, it can't be proven without a doubt either way.

    I can only assume it's because our understanding of things becomes more comprehensive with time. Clinging to outdated research and information is how we get flat Earthers.

    Several species of birds, amphibians, insects, fish, and other aquatic life.
     
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  12. That's a pretty interesting read,but that same article states that humans cannot change sex.I do like the article though so thank you.
     
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  13. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    Certainly not to the extent that we're able to change reproductive organs on a whim. But had we followed a slightly different evolutionary path it may well have been possible. In any case I think it's clear that sex isn't such a binary issue from nature's point of view.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Jun 12, 2019
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  14. MadMageKefka

    MadMageKefka GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    1. If you say so.
    2. Meaning, able to do so unless affected by something else such as an unrelated disease or illness that caused the inability to reproduce.
    3. "Open to interpretation" I mean, isn't all of this? So basically, you mean "no."
     
  15. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

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    Then the answer is yes, not that it's relevant.

    Don't tell me what I mean. Some individuals who are interesex have genitalia that is neither male nor female.
     
  16. MadMageKefka

    MadMageKefka GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    Then why didn't you just say "yes?"
     
  17. cots
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    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    For anyone that still thinks that transgendism isn't defined as a mental disorder.

    It turns out that the WHO has reclassified transgender people to change them from having a mental disorder to having a lessor disorder under the panel's sexual health chapter (mainly to reduce stigma). It won't be put into effect until 2022.

    So the WHO up until today and continuing until 2022 classify it as a mental disorder (I was unaware of this because I don't care about the WHO).

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/health/who-transgender-reclassified-not-mental-disorder/index.html

    The DSM-V still categorizes transgender people having a mental illness, but the severity of the diagnosis had been reduced from what the DSM-IV had it as (again to reduce stigma).

    You do realize that it has to be defined as a medical or mental condition for insurance companies to pay for fixing or treating the problem? If it wasn't some sort of disorder than you'd have to pay for it yourself, but that's not the only reason why it's classified as such (just pointing out to the people using my money to get their treatment might not want to have it become normal otherwise they're going to have to pay for it themselves without the help from my taxes).
     
  18. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

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    Neither the WHO nor the DSM classifies being transgender as a mental disorder.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Because that depends on one's interpretation.
     
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  19. cots
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    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    Well, under the WHO it's only going to be a mental illness until after the changes take effect in 2022, but before then and up until a few days ago it was still classified as a disorder.

    The DSM-V reclassified transgenderism into a lessor category, but it's still classified and they didn't get rid of it (in the DSM-IV it was a more server illness - now it's a less severe illness)

    I can't help if you deny facts. I can't fix stupid.
     
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  20. AmandaRose

    AmandaRose Do what I do. Hold tight and pretend it’s a plan

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    Please give a detailed breakdown of what your own personal taxes are being used for exactly. You have zero evidence that any of your own personal taxes have ever been used to treat transgenders just as I have zero evidence if my own taxes are being used to treat drug addicts or being used for any other practice I disagree with.

    Using that argument is pointless because

    A) You have zero evidence that you own taxes have ever financed any transgender procedure
    B) you have zero evidence that a transgender person's own taxes has or has not financed their own treatment.

    And besides it is just another one of your comments that is straight out of the transphobic handbook 101.

    Must used quotes out of the transphobic handbook.

    1. It's a mental disorder

    2. I don't want my taxes

    3. Biologically you are not a woman

    The only thing missing from any of your comments is

    I'm not transphobic but.



    (One world, one love, all of us are the same we are all human, fuck the bullshit. Let’s just L️‍️‍OVE each
    other)
     
    Last edited by AmandaRose, Jun 15, 2019
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