Can We Stop With The Name Calling Already ...

[Dasher_The_Viral]

I was mostly trying to use sarcastic humor to get my point across, but yes, you are 100% correct and I am aware. That's also why he always wore gloves before the surgery; to hide the white spots.

Understandable, just wanted to be sure you knew the actual reason and weren't just misinformed. lol

 

[Whole lotta love]

You should do some reading about the scientific basic about how every person on the planet can only be born with 1 out of 2 possible genitalia. These other "genders" are made up, superficial words invented to make insecure people feel like they fit in somewhere. Kind of ironic that a group that tries so hard to force others to accept them "how they are" cant even accept their owm gender they were born with, imo.

What texts should I read?
Interested to know what scientific literature you're reading that denies the existence of intersex people.

 

[Deleted User]

I guess it's time to add to the whole gender discussion.
So people can have xy and xx chromosomes. this is what in the states is considered normal. But the issue of gender comes from the fact that it is not entirely based on the organs you have. There is also btw a xxy chromosome. Which I'm not going to get into. But the issue is birth doesn't always go the "intended" xx and xy only dictate genitalia, if in the situation too much estrogen or testosterone enters the baby while being formed, they can end up having a xx chromosome (female) but have a male mind due to the testosterone influencing that factor. Gender isn't sex. It's pretty much how you show your body language, how you perceive yourself, sex related organs.
With that out of the way.
I personally do believe to some degree that these terms are being overused.
But then again the internet is a huge echo chamber. We only hear the loudest sub group of a minority often. Not all SJW are the stereotype, but there is a sub group of them that fits it. Not all left people support legalization of marijuana or extreme socialism. Not all people on the right support Trump. But with the internet, and the media, it often can seem like that.
I personally don't care if your part of LGBTQ+ or if your trans, gay, bi or everything else that falls under LGBTQ+
But... here's the issue. Due to the echo chamber it has made both the internet space and the real world extremely polar. (at least as far as I can tell.) And more and more of these extreme views are popping up. I think a lot of the current issues in regards to the internet and politics in the states at least can be attributed to this echo chamber...

 

[MadMageKefka]

What texts should I read?
Interested to know what scientific literature you're reading that denies the existence of intersex people.

Biology.

 

[Whole lotta love]

Biology.

Which biology text?

 

[MadMageKefka]

Which biology text?

Literally anything that covers the X and Y chromosomes.

 

[Whole lotta love]

Literally anything that covers the X and Y chromosomes.

Okay, so like Ann-Fausto Sterling's Sex/Gender: Biology in a Social World?
Or Rebecca Jordan-Young's Brain Storm: The Flaws in the Science of Sex Differences?
Or one of the cognitive neuroscience textbooks I used in my undergrad Neuroscience 101 class
Brain & Behavior, 5th edition
You should read the chapter: The Biology of Sex and Gender

All of these biology texts disagree with your gender essentialism. It would help if you could cite any sources to back up your claims.

 

[MadMageKefka]

Okay, so like Ann-Fausto Sterling's Sex/Gender: Biology in a Social World?
Or Rebecca Jordan-Young's Brain Storm: The Flaws in the Science of Sex Differences?
Or one of the cognitive neuroscience textbooks I used in my undergrad Neuroscience 101 class
Brain & Behavior, 5th edition
You should read the chapter: The Biology of Sex and Gender

All of these biology texts disagree with your gender essentialism. It would help if you could cite any sources to back up your claims.

For a guy that studies so much, you sure have a hard time counting penis and vagina. I notice all your sources listed are on neuroscience. So you're saying that what defines gender is in your brain, right? If my brain makes me think I'm god, does that make it true? People can have all sorts of sexual preferences, that much is pretty obvious. This does not show that there are more than 2 genders. As I said before, they are made up terms to give people a place to belong; to feel "normal." They are strictly social / mental, not physical.

 

[Whole lotta love]

For a guy that studies so much, you sure have a hard time counting penis and vagina. I notice all your sources listed are on neuroscience. So you're saying that what defines gender is in your brain, right? If my brain makes me think I'm god, does that make it true? People can have all sorts of sexual preferences, that much is pretty obvious. This does not show that there are more than 2 genders. As I said before, they are made up terms to give people a place to belong; to feel "normal." They are strictly social / mental, not physical.

The study of gender is largely done under the domains of neurobiology, cognitive neuroscience, and psychology (aka behavior).
I feel like I'm arguing with a middle schooler. Do you have any understanding of how mammals develop and that you can't just separate the nervous system from that?

You claimed that "biology" has proven gender essentialism to be true, while refusing to cite any evidence to back up your claim. If it's all of biology that proves that, it should be really easy to find a source, right? And yet, when I provided biology literature that argues contrary to what you feel to be true, you dig your heels in the sand. I'm sorry you feel that intersex people don't make up 2% of the human population and that chromosomes determine gender identity, but that's not what the literature says. I can't help your feelings, but if you want to have an actual discussion, please bring some evidence. Scientific inquiry is based on repeated and rigorous observation, not what you feel to be true.

 

[osaka35]

Literally anything that covers the X and Y chromosomes.

those sound like highschool or middleschool textbooks, I'm guessing. Possibly outdated and poorly written. It's a bit of a problem for schools at the moment, to be honest, outdated and poorly written textbooks. You'll find most highschool textbooks tend to take the "ehhh, more or less" approach. There's a reason why folks say you have to unlearn most everything you learned in highschool when you get to college. What you were taught as rules are actually more like fuzzy concepts not explained very well.

But biology is pretty messy. it's not as straight-forward as you were led to believe. But to help out, there are, at least, 3 different categories you can break this down into:
-chromosome
-presenting sex
-gender

chromsomes are usually xy or xx. but they can be xxx, xxy, etc, etc. lots of combinations. Rare, perhaps, but they still happen to loads of people. They don't not exist because it doesn't happen terribly often.

presenting sex is what kind of sex you could pass as (read: what you look like). depends on how a body reacts to the various hormones or whatnot, among other things. For example, If your body didn't really react to testosterone, even if you were XY, you'd have all the physical aspects of a woman and probably consider yourself a woman. Or maybe not. Brains and bodies are fun like that.

gender is the "men act and look like this", "women act and look like this" nonsense. But folks aren't exactly cookies, so neither of those two categories fit a great great many people. And when the categories don't fit the people, you don't try and shove them into the categories to make your life easier. You make new categories to better reflect reality. You adapt to reality, reality doesn't adapt to you. Simple as that. Mix and match this with those above and you've got a lot of people who understand themselves in ways that aren't reflected very well with the language and concepts we currently use.

And that's even before we get into the science of transgendered and other related topics. Understand the above and you're a step closer to understanding how complicated the biology is on the topic. Biology is far more varied and interesting than you give it credit for

 

[Engezerstorung]

Chromosome can even be XX but with an X presenting the specifics genes of Y making you having a male biological (and fuctionnal) sex and making you 100% biologicaly male, and XY but with the Y missing thoses same genes, basically making you a biological female.
Science is fun when you dig in it, what is less fun is those people thiking that their highschool grade knowledge on a subject make them as experts as any scientist, the same way we now have platists "hur hur look if i empty a bottle of water on a ball it dont stick hence gravity is bullshit, duhr duhr, do your own research"

 

[MadMageKefka]

The study of gender is largely done under the domains of neurobiology, cognitive neuroscience, and psychology (aka behavior).
I feel like I'm arguing with a middle schooler. Do you have any understanding of how mammals develop and that you can't just separate the nervous system from that?

You claimed that "biology" has proven gender essentialism to be true, while refusing to cite any evidence to back up your claim. If it's all of biology that proves that, it should be really easy to find a source, right? And yet, when I provided biology literature that argues contrary to what you feel to be true, you dig your heels in the sand. I'm sorry you feel that intersex people don't make up 2% of the human population and that chromosomes determine gender identity, but that's not what the literature says. I can't help your feelings, but if you want to have an actual discussion, please bring some evidence. Scientific inquiry is based on repeated and rigorous observation, not what you feel to be true.

Even 10 seconds just now on Wikipedia says that anything outside the typical XX and XY combinations are rare mutations. You're absolutely right, I have no sources to cite. It's very nice that you do and super interesting, but at some point in my life I decided I didnt really need to study neuroscience to help me better identify genitalia.

gender is the "men should do this", "women should do this" nonsense.

Gender is still literally shown in the dictionary as a synonym for sex. Excluding a VERY small number of rare mutations, there are still only 2 sets of reproductive organs that I am aware of. Can you show me a 3rd, common(ish) one? I will not question the complexity of the human body, nor deny my lack of a thorough understanding of its ins and outs. There are lots of unique people in the world for sure, and they all deserve the same rights, but as far as I'm aware, there are still only 2 sets of reproductive organs, excluding the rare mutations.

 

[Bedel]

Gender is still literally shown in the dictionary as a synonym for sex.

Let me put it simple for you: this is what you may do when you don't know the difference between two things difference between two things.

 

[DeadlyFoez]

"Can We Stop With The Name Calling Already ..."
Look at Mr. AllUpTight here.

 

[MadMageKefka]

Let me put it simple for you: this is what you may do when you don't know the difference between two things difference between two things.

Funny, that's the same site that told me they were synonyms. It's almost like if you type something in there, it returns what you're looking for. Let me put it simple for you: typically if you search why things are different, its not going to return results about why they are the same. That's how a search engine works.

 

[Bedel]

Funny, that's the same site that told me they were synonyms. It's almost like if you type something in there, it returns what you're looking for. Let me put it simple for you: typically if you search why things are different, its not going to return results about why they are the same. That's how a search engine works.

So, you did the wrong search.
Either way, I don't care if you are wrong in your understanding of sexuality and gender. Just wanted to help somehow. Didn't came here to teach you, but to see if the op was still crying for being transphobic.
Have a great day mate.

 

[MadMageKefka]

So, you did the wrong search.
Either way, I don't care if you are wrong in your understanding of sexuality and gender. Just wanted to help somehow. Didn't came here to teach you, but to see if the op was still crying for being transphobic.
Have a great day mate.

You cared enough to comment twice, and I somehow doubt your sarcastic "let me google that for you" was intended to be helpful.

...regardless, you do the same my odd new internet acquaintance.

 

[Whole lotta love]

Even 10 seconds just now on Wikipedia says that anything outside the typical XX and XY combinations are rare mutations. You're absolutely right, I have no sources to cite. It's very nice that you do and super interesting, but at some point in my life I decided I didnt really need to study neuroscience to help me better identify genitalia.


Gender is still literally shown in the dictionary as a synonym for sex. Excluding a VERY small number of rare mutations, there are still only 2 sets of reproductive organs that I am aware of. Can you show me a 3rd, common(ish) one? I will not question the complexity of the human body, nor deny my lack of a thorough understanding of its ins and outs. There are lots of unique people in the world for sure, and they all deserve the same rights, but as far as I'm aware, there are still only 2 sets of reproductive organs, excluding the rare mutations.

Intersex people make up 2% of the population, the same as redheads. Are redheads just "rare mutations" and don't count as a hair color?

An English dictionary isn't a biological text. Why did you demand that I look at "biology" to prove your point, and then when I referenced biological literature you ran to an English language dictionary? Sex and gender are used interchangeably colloquially because language norms lag behind scientific discovery.

Since I finally got you to read something, how about we take a look for the wiki for Gender since you find it a suitable reference.

 

[MadMageKefka]

An English dictionary isn't a biological text. Why did you demand that I look at "biology" to prove your point, and then when I referenced biological literature you ran to an English language dictionary?

....probably because I was talking to a different person in that section. That's why it was below a quote that wasn't yours.

Until someone shows me a new set of human genitals besides a penis or vagina that is capable of reproduction, the count remains at 2.

 

[SG854]

The study of gender is largely done under the domains of neurobiology, cognitive neuroscience, and psychology (aka behavior).
I feel like I'm arguing with a middle schooler. Do you have any understanding of how mammals develop and that you can't just separate the nervous system from that?

You claimed that "biology" has proven gender essentialism to be true, while refusing to cite any evidence to back up your claim. If it's all of biology that proves that, it should be really easy to find a source, right? And yet, when I provided biology literature that argues contrary to what you feel to be true, you dig your heels in the sand. I'm sorry you feel that intersex people don't make up 2% of the human population and that chromosomes determine gender identity, but that's not what the literature says. I can't help your feelings, but if you want to have an actual discussion, please bring some evidence. Scientific inquiry is based on repeated and rigorous observation, not what you feel to be true.

Gender and Sex is Binary and not a social construct. And behaviors are observable at birth. Unless people want to argue that a baby born is capable of learning gender stereotypes while they are in the womb. Gender identity, gender expressions are all related. Science doesn’t really back the 80+ genders and people won’t really find much research that says otherwise.


Usually misinformation and bad science comes from the humanities and grievance studies departments which has no scientific backing and many don’t go and test their hypothesis. They just present ideas without testing them.



Biological Sex is either Male or Female based on reproductive functions. Gender is how we feel in relation to our biological sex. It can be somewhat affected by socialization but it doesn’t override biology.




Hormones/biology in Utero dictate babies gender identity. For around 99% of people biological sex is gender identity. Prenatal testosterone changes the way Brians grow.


Intersex people contain anatomy that is characteristic of both sexes. It’s still binary. And which is due to differences in genetic and hormonal exposure in the womb. Biology is still at play here and the existence of intersex people does not prove anything.


Even the idea of gender as a social construct is ridiculous when you think it through. That means actual trans people can be trained not to be trans anymore if it is a construct, so society should work at that. And society at birth should get at the core and train babies not to be trans when they grow up, which is something trans activists complain about when they say doctors assign sex at birth.



Scientists that study social psychology coming out to back James Demore after he got fired from google.

https://quillette.com/2017/08/07/google-memo-four-scientists-respond/