Emulation Can someone clear this up?

[bluebowser31]

Ive been told all 3 sides so many times ive lost count, one time we got into a 2 hour argument of whether playing roms are illegal, and online i find all 3 answers, so can someone please clear this up, and maybe give a short reason why? (dont copy and paste the declaration of independence or something stupid) and PLEASE dont link me to wikipedia...

also, very sorry if this has been asked, but i didnt see it, and i would like to get a strait answer... (added poll to see what people that read but dont type think(like if your viewing this on the wii, where the keyboard scheme sucks))

(i mean JUST playing them, not selling them or giving them away)

 

[BORTZ]

emus: legal
Roms: illegal

 

[GreatCrippler]

You own the game, the EXACT game, and it is legal to play your own backed up roms. Otherwise, completely illegal.

 

[bluebowser31]

so if your make the copy yourself its legal!? wtf!?!?

 

[Vulpes Abnocto]

so if your make the copy yourself its legal!? wtf!?!?

No.
It's legal if you bought and paid for this game,
and then make just one copy of it for a personal backup.

 

[GreatCrippler]

so if your make the copy yourself its legal!? wtf!?!?

Or if the backup you have is identical to your own game. Who's to say who backed it up originally... Doesn't really matter at that point.

 

[bluebowser31]

so i went out and bought super mario world, super mario advanced 2, and now i went and donwloaded 1 rom of it... thats legal?

but can i play it, even if my real game is perfectly ok? (u know government, so ill ask) (im asking what you mean by backup)

 

[Vulpes Abnocto]

No, because of the downloading.

You can make the backup, and play the backup, with the original set aside for safekeeping.

(at least the way I understand it)

 

[bluebowser31]

what about that guy up there?

"Or if the backup you have is identical to your own game. Who's to say who backed it up originally... Doesn't really matter at that point. "

and who has the thing needed to copy games handy!? and besides, wouldn't the "crime" if u were caught, just be aiding in piracy, because u downloaded it? (well i did ask legaly, so this doesnt matter, i just saying that that would be the stupidest thing ive heard in a few years (the thing about have to copy it yourself... it seems like it should be illegal if own a thing to make a copy of it

)

 

[Vulpes Abnocto]

and who has the thing needed to copy games handy!?
Hardly anybody. That's the catch.

and besides, wouldn't the "crime" if u were caught, just be aiding in piracy, because u downloaded it? (well i did ask legaly, so this doesnt matter, i just saying that that would be the stupidest thing ive heard in a few years
Welcome to the wonderful world of copyright law. It makes for lots of headaches. And when you take international copyright laws into account it just gets more confusing, because the viewpoints aren't the same in all countries. (I'm assuming you're in the states)
QUOTE

(the thing about have to copy it yourself... it seems like it should be illegal if own a thing to make a copy of it

)

You're buying media or data that you wouldn't want to pay for twice.
Problem is that the media deteriorates over time, when you use it. (Discs get scratched, etc.)
Making a backup is the only way you can be sure your media will last.

 

[bluebowser31]

You're buying media or data that you wouldn't want to pay for twice.
Problem is that the media deteriorates over time, when you use it. (Discs get scratched, etc.)
Making a backup is the only way you can be sure your media will last.

i get that, but think about it, i guarantee that nearly half of all people that own a device used to copy games will put them online. I mean why pay (im asuming alot) of money for something that you already payed for, and can get 4 free?

so basicaly unless i want to spend maybe 100 dollars on hardware, i cant even download 1 copy of 1 game i paid for!??!

 

[CompC]

Nintendo has a page on their site that talks about this…

Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom

 

[Rydian]

US Code, title 17, chapter 1, section 106.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/usc_...06----000-.html

[...] the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;

The Us Copyright Office has a nice FAQ up.
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html#p2p
QUOTEUploading or downloading works protected by copyright without the authority of the copyright owner is an infringement of the copyright owner's exclusive rights of reproduction and/or distribution. Anyone found to have infringed a copyrighted work may be liable for statutory damages up to $30,000 for each work infringed and, if willful infringement is proven by the copyright owner, that amount may be increased up to $150,000 for each work infringed. In addition, an infringer of a work may also be liable for the attorney's fees incurred by the copyright owner to enforce his or her rights.

 

[bluebowser31]

Which is why i started this topic /sigh
and why do they always say 24 hours lol? is it some type of free trial

seriously though, it would be very funny to know the crime of downloading a rom of a 20 year old game that you own.

well i guess we can close this one unless anyone has any other ground breaking info that makes me feel worse about myself

also on that site:

People Making Nintendo Emulators and Nintendo ROMs are Helping Publishers by Making Old Games Available that are No Longer Being Sold by the Copyright Owner. This Does Not Hurt Anyone and Allows Gamers to Play Old Favorites. What's the Problem?

The problem is that it's illegal. Copyrights and trademarks of games are corporate assets. If these vintage titles are available far and wide, it undermines the value of this intellectual property and adversely affects the right owner. In addition, the assumption that the games involved are vintage or nostalgia games is incorrect. Nintendo is famous for bringing back to life its popular characters for its newer systems, for example, Mario and Donkey Kong have enjoyed their adventures on all Nintendo platforms, going from coin-op machines to our latest hardware platforms. As a copyright owner, and creator of such famous characters, only Nintendo has the right to benefit from such valuable assets.

now isnt that funny? we CAN legaly play roms, 95 years after the creators die! WOOT *Grabs shotgun and time machine*

Edit: @above, so that means that even if we have paid for the game, bought the hardware to copy it, dont give the game away, thats still ilegal!? well i guess we learn something new everyday...

QUOTEAnyone found to have infringed a copyrighted work may be liable for statutory damages up to $30,000 for each work infringed and, if willful infringement is proven by the copyright owner, that amount may be increased up to $150,000 for each work infringed.

OH MY MOTHER! so i could legaly pay more than 45,000 dolars for downloading super mario 64ds?!? man some parts of the gorvenment need some work...

 

[GreatCrippler]

Whereas technically the downloading and playing is illegal, if the rom is identical to a game you own, they can do nothing to you. They have zero way of proving you didn't rip it yourself, and any company would be foolish to pursue someone for playing a rom of a game that they personally own.

 

[Infinite Zero]

simple.
if you own the original game
then downloading that rom isnt illegal

 

[Dangy]

The 24 hour thing is just an example for when you rent a game.

 

[bluebowser31]

just to recap:

US Code, title 17, chapter 1, section 106.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/usc_...06----000-.html

QUOTE
[...] the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;


The Us Copyright Office has a nice FAQ up.
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html#p2p
QUOTE
Uploading or downloading works protected by copyright without the authority of the copyright owner is an infringement of the copyright owner's exclusive rights of reproduction and/or distribution. Anyone found to have infringed a copyrighted work may be liable for statutory damages up to $30,000 for each work infringed and, if willful infringement is proven by the copyright owner, that amount may be increased up to $150,000 for each work infringed. In addition, an infringer of a work may also be liable for the attorney's fees incurred by the copyright owner to enforce his or her rights.

Wikipedia's Copyright term extension act article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act
QUOTE
The Act extended these terms to life of the author plus 70 years and for works of corporate authorship to 120 years after creation or 95 years after publication, whichever endpoint is earlier

Which if i understand that, it means we have to wait for the creator of the game to die, then at least 70 years later, to legaly play the rom.

My only question left is: so does all of that mean that is ilegal to even rip it yourself? or because you own it and only you use it, isnt it your legal right to copy it?

Its kinda funny if you think about it, based on this^^, its ILlegal to use a rom of a game you bought, but its LEGAL to use homebrew... funfact...

 

[thaddius]

its LEGAL to use homebrew... funfact...

Technically this is not legal either... sorta.

When you purchase a game system you are usually agreeing to an end user liscence agreement that says that you won't do anything 'unauthorized' to\with the system. For that reason the company that made the game system is capable of suing you if you run homebrew on their system (so long as hombrew is specifically outlined as unauthorized in said end user liscence agreement).

According to such agreements you do not own any game, movie, game system, etc., you are merely borrowing them, under liscence, from the manufacturer.

 

[Rydian]

The "24 hour" thing is totally false, it's a lie, the ROM sites made it up, it's got no legal base at all.

You're not allowed to download a ROM even if you own the game, either. YOU can MAKE a copy. Downloading somebody else's is not making it.