?

Who are you rooting for?

Poll closed Dec 14, 2019.
  1. Conservative

    11 vote(s)
    22.4%
  2. Labour

    24 vote(s)
    49.0%
  3. Liberal Democrats

    4 vote(s)
    8.2%
  4. Brexit

    2 vote(s)
    4.1%
  5. SNP

    2 vote(s)
    4.1%
  6. UKIP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Greens

    1 vote(s)
    2.0%
  8. Sinn Fein (or other Irish Republican)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. DUP (or other Ulster unionist)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Plaid Cymru

    1 vote(s)
    2.0%
  11. Other / change UK

    4 vote(s)
    8.2%
  1. x65943

    OP x65943 Dr. Rabbi Prince X, Sr., Ed. D.
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2014
    Messages:
    4,230
    Country:
    United States
    UK parliament is having an election this Thursday. Every seat of parliament is up for re-election.

    The Conservatives are campaigning to "Get Brexit done"

    Labour is campaigning to increase social services and for a confirmatory referendum of Labour Brexit vs Remain

    The Liberal Democrats are campaigning as Remain

    Many other parties such as Brexit, Greens, SNP, PC, Sinn Fein, DUP etc are also in the race but quite a bit behind in overall UK wide vote share (some due to regional campaigns and others due to low performance overall)

    It's supposed to be a cold day, and current polls are showing the Conservatives winning an outright majority (although many races are within margin of error and too close to definitively call)

    So what's your stance? Who are you rooting for? (If any). Do you think it's ridiculous 4 years on that Brexit is still dominating UK politics?
     
    Flame, IncredulousP and Xzi like this.
  2. Hanafuda

    Hanafuda GBAtemp Addict
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,801
    Country:
    United States
    I ain't got a dog in the hunt and won't pretend to be informed on the issues. But the idea of having a second referendum on Brexit is perplexing. If they did that and the "remain" side won this time, will there be another one after that for 'best two out of three?' Seems only fair.
     
  3. x65943

    OP x65943 Dr. Rabbi Prince X, Sr., Ed. D.
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2014
    Messages:
    4,230
    Country:
    United States
    The argument is that the initial referendum was remain vs leave

    However leaving can mean many different things - norway style, customs union alignment, hard brexit

    For this reason some people believe it wasn't really a fair question as "leave" was effectively 100 options vs Remain being 1

    It's like asking "what's your favorite color, any color from a box of crayons or teal?"

    It's obvious in this case which side would be numerically more favored - as it means something different to everyone.

    The same could be said about Brexit - and it's obvious why no deal can be made after all this time - all brexiters disagree on precisely what that means. To some norway style is not Brexit at all. This has led to deadlock in parliament - and indeed even the dismissal of cabinet members.

    A second referendum wouldn't simply be leave vs stay again, but rather the best negotiated deal vs remain

    This would squash the deadlock and finally end the brexit nightmare

    I am not saying this is necessarily the only right answer, or even a right answer, but it's not simply "do over"

    It's what the first referendum should have been in the first place.

    Add to that that the proportion of those who would vote brexit this time has fallen to a minority (although a slim one). Should a populace who no longer wishes for something be forced to have it because they wanted it in the past? By that logic regular elections are "undemocratic" - after all, once elected shouldn't a politician have his seat for life? (Taking that position to an extreme to make a point.)

    All in all I think it's a viable option - it's not as though the elected officials didn't already have the chance to "*Get Brexit Done" - they have been in power for about a decade straight.
     
  4. Costello

    Costello Headmaster
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Messages:
    13,628
    I have to say I agree with you, even though I was rooting for "remain" originally, it just doesn't make sense now. If you hold a second referendum, how does it hold any more value than the first? what makes it more legitimate? I mean, the people have voted already, get on with it. Let's see how much trouble it causes to the UK economy... or, well, maybe it'll do good, right? time will tell

    edit: I typed this before seeing x's reply
     
    LonelyPhantom and x65943 like this.
  5. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    9,401
    Country:
    United States
    I don't think it will come as a surprise to anyone that I like nearly everything I've heard from Corbyn and the Labour party. And their record largely shows that they practice what they preach, it's not just empty rhetoric like you hear from so many other parties and career politicians. The workers of every country need to have a stake in shaping their governments and their futures, because if we continue allowing those born into obscene wealth to make all the decisions for us, this planet has maybe ten good years left in it tops.

    Now, if I was looking at this through the selfish lens of what most benefits the US' interests in the UK, of course I'd say the Conservative party should win it. A no-deal Brexit would give us tremendous leverage over Britain and allow for the exploitation of both their workers and healthcare system. Even if I were to somehow profit from that personally it's not what I would want, of course, because it's morally and ethically abhorrent.

    The entire concept of putting Brexit to a public "yes/no" vote was half-baked at best, and now that the shit is beginning to hit the fan, I think a second referendum will be necessary to assure that voters know exactly what they're getting themselves in to. Every ballot needs a thorough and detailed guide included, outlining both the benefits and the consequences of each option. And of course there needs to be a minimum of three options, closer to five or six would be optimal.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
    Lacius, Henx and IncredulousP like this.
  6. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    7,320
    Country:
    Belgium
    (note: not British here)
    I'm torn between the 'L' parties. And I really would need to be a Briton to know the difference, because - for obvious reasons as a foreigner - my main motivation is about the brexit situation. And that's hardly fair because the party isn't (or shouldn't) "just" occupy themselves with the brexit. What else do they have on their proverbial menu?

    Let's start with the less obvious choice: liberal democrats (libdems, though I'm not familiar enough with them to call 'em that). Their stance on brexit is refreshingly simple: "we've heard the brexit inquiry, but due to the hassle that followed upon attempting to get it done, we decided it's not worth pursuing it". In other words: they're pointing out that the brexit referendum never was a legally binding clause, so they can just ignore it. Of course not everyone's going to be happy with that stance, but then again...that's a given for most parties.
    From what I gather, they are also pretty liberal (no...really :P ), which is a plus for me. But the interview/article I read on them was...pretty weird. It was in an actual (Dutch) newspaper so I can't link to it, but it spoke with various inlanders basically saying "yeah, I dislike brexit and yeah they'd be the best choice for me...but there's no way they can make it so I'm voting something else!". So...either my news paper cherry picked some weird characters, or the party is a niche party that amounts to nothing (despite them...winning pretty big in the last election? I honestly can't follow :unsure: ).

    The other choice would, of course, be labour. Also politically left, but I honestly can't say I'm a fan of their brexit ideology. For the longest time, the main government was all pursuing brexit and the opposition under Corbyn was mostly a "I would've negotiated better". Heck...I'm not even sure if the shred of news of Corbyn wanting to renegotiate with the EU YET AGAIN was still recent or not (if so, that torning would be over and I'd vote libdem all the way).


    That would only be fair, indeed. In similar circumstances, of course. Let's see...

    -if the bremainder would spend far more campaign money than allowed
    -if they made promises about being part of the EU membership that the EU itself never was about
    -if they dragged all sorts of emotional arguments into the mix ("it should be done for the independence of our nation"...that sort of fluff)
    -if the disadvantages of being in the EU would be minimized or lied about
    -if there'd be legal complications of being in the EU that would be dismissed as "easiest negotiations ever"...before it turns out there'd be a three year drag on negotiations in which there'd be more talks in tabloids than at the negotiation table
    -<I could probably come up with some more>

    ...then yes. Absolutely. Best out of three would be preferred in that case. Heck...they can hold a referendum every three years for all I care.
    I don't think it's likely to happen, though. People don't need to be told about how it's like to be in the EU because Britain is already in the EU. About the only complication of a bremain I can think of would be who would be filling in Farage's post in the EU.
     
    Ev1l0rd and x65943 like this.
  7. Uiaad

    Uiaad GBAtemp's resident guinea pig
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2008
    Messages:
    443
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I fully contend that the intention was always to leave the EU even if the vote had gone the other way but it's about more than the dog's breakfast that is Brexit. The thing with Brexit is the amount of money we have flushed down the toilet when it should have been used at least attempting to repair the damage done to our crumbling schools, NHS and police force. The problem I have first and foremost is Boris Johnson. I wouldn't trust that man to open a can of beans that was already open. He's a moronic buffoon who should never have been allowed to have that level of responsibility and power. Corbyn I look at him and without even him open his mouth I know if he gets in he's gonna shaft the country. I tend to follow my gut a lot and that man is the wrong horse.

    Ultimately, I have already voted. I cast my vote on the 27th November ( postal vote ) I guess over the next couple of days we will find out which way the wind is blowing.
     
    Henx and x65943 like this.
  8. arcanine

    arcanine GBAtemp Regular
    Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    Messages:
    100
    Country:
    Where is the option for "none"? I will not be voting, and I don't care if this makes me "part of the problem". Democracy is a sham devised by the establishment to placate the masses with the illusion of control. Meanwhile, politicians do whatever the fuck they want to increase their own personal wealth, power and status at the expense of the taxpayer. A vote is a vote for a political party, and there is nobody to vote for. I will not patronise any of them with my vote. They are all lying, sociopathic cunts and I despise every single one of them. I am now making it my life's work to get my earnings below the income tax threshold so I do not have to pay them a single penny of tax. I want absolutely nothing to do with the government. They have nothing whatsoever to offer me, they do not represent me or my interests, and I do not require their influence. They can carry on without me fucking up the planet and everyone else's lives. It's not my problem.
     
    Henx and UltraDolphinRevolution like this.
  9. AmandaRose

    AmandaRose Do what I do. Hold tight and pretend it’s a plan
    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2015
    Messages:
    6,053
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I despise the SNP and will be voting Labour. I have and always will vote for them. It hugely saddens me that out of the 49 seats available in Scotland the SNP are projected to win at least 41 seats which works out at them winning 84% of the seats available here. Anyone voting for the SNP tomorrow please note that a vote for the SNP is basically a vote to keep that blundering baffon BoJo in power. You know the same very guy the whole of Scotland is constantly complaining about and hates with a passion yet I bet none of you SNP voters have the balls to get all tactical and vote Labour purely to get Bojo out of Number 10.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
    Ev1l0rd and IncredulousP like this.
  10. UltraDolphinRevolution

    UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Advanced Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Messages:
    578
    Country:
    China
    Is this sarcasm? I really can't tell.
     
    Shadowfied likes this.
  11. arcanine

    arcanine GBAtemp Regular
    Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    Messages:
    100
    Country:
    brexit was a tactical move by david cameron to prevent ukip from poaching tory voters. All of the rhetoric around it is completely meaningless, and there is no sound rationale for leaving the EU. we will leave, and we will be made an example of by the EU so that no other member states dare to try the same thing. our economy will suffer, our public services will deteriorate, and all because the toffs are scared of the racists. so long democracy. fuck hope.
     
    CORE and x65943 like this.
  12. leon315

    leon315 POWERLIFTER
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Messages:
    3,024
    Country:
    Italy
    i live in pizzalandia, here we have so many small parties (from 5% up to 25% of consent but never surpass 30%) which they do nuffin but saliva-battle whole the day, it's unbelievable that UK outnumbered Italy about Parties O.O!
     
  13. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
    Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,699
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    The 2016 referendum was technically the second one.

    We now know that dark money was used to buy the result.

    The liar we have running the country is contradicting his own plan in public. He's worse than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf who was filmed saying that there were no tanks, when you could actually see the tanks.

    So yeah, without putting it back to the people then british politics is dead.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  14. Viri

    Viri GBAtemp Addict
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,595
    Country:
    United States
    If you put it that way, that's quite scary, why would anyone wanna be in the EU, if they really had that mindset? You make the EU sound like the mob, lol.

    As for the election, I have thoughts, but who gives a shit about mine? I don't live in the UK or even Europe.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  15. UltraDolphinRevolution

    UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Advanced Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Messages:
    578
    Country:
    China
    That's a pretty good summary of what happened. But how do you define democracy? If a (theoretical) country of racists want to leave the EU or do this and that. Is it not democratic? We should use a different word then. Demos means people/polulus.
     
  16. azoreseuropa

    azoreseuropa GBAtemp Guru
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Messages:
    8,945
    Country:
    United States
    None. Don't election nobody. They are the corrupted and don't trust them at all. None.

    I just want Biritish to return to Europe.. Not Brexit. Thats all.
     
  17. leon315

    leon315 POWERLIFTER
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Messages:
    3,024
    Country:
    Italy
    I THINK one of main reason UK wants the divorce is UK doesn't want to deal upcoming refugees, thus they want border closed.
     
  18. arcanine

    arcanine GBAtemp Regular
    Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    Messages:
    100
    Country:
    A referendum on a decision which was put to the public on the basis of speculation and propaganda with no due diligence on the consequences of the vote is not an expression of democracy by any definition of the word. It is yet another manipulation of people who are being intentionally stupefied by those who are in control. The conspiracy is real. Global politics is all about keeping people in their place. Only revolution can save us now.
     
    Henx, CORE and andyhappypants like this.
  19. x65943

    OP x65943 Dr. Rabbi Prince X, Sr., Ed. D.
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2014
    Messages:
    4,230
    Country:
    United States
    Their border is already closed, they have never been a part of the Schengen area. On top of this there is the channel that physically separates them from mainland Europe.
     
  20. arcanine

    arcanine GBAtemp Regular
    Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    Messages:
    100
    Country:
    What exactly do you expect to happen if britain leaves with an amazing deal which allows us free trade with the EU with no tariffs, no fees and none of the obligations? All of the other countries will want the same of course, and the whole union will collapse. So they are never going to give britain a good deal. They will humiliate us to ensure the other member states don’t ask for the same treatment. Anybody who cannot see this is irrational.
     
    Uiaad and CORE like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted
Loading...

Hide similar threads Similar threads with keywords - Election, British, thread