Austria first country to make Covid vaccine mandatory

[Deleted member 507653]

Lockdown =/= confinement. At no point during the U.K. lockdown was I ever prohibited from leaving my home and moving about. Confinements equals sequestering a section of the populace in a facility that they cannot leave. We already have that, it’s called prison. Locking someone on their own home by welding the door shut may pass as acceptable in totalitarian China, here we do not tolerate tyranny. As a side note, “the public” can kiss my ass - it’s overwhelmingly fat around here. Nobody gets to tell me what is and is not healthy when they could benefit from losing a hundred pounds.

Austria is having a lockdown for everyone until 12/13. The vaccine is mandatory in that, after that date those who don't have the vaccine will continue being in lockdown. There is talk of possible fines for not getting vaccinated but where are you getting confinement from?

 

[deinonychus71]

Lockdown =/= confinement. At no point during the U.K. lockdown was I ever prohibited from leaving my home and moving about. Confinements equals sequestering a section of the populace in a facility that they cannot leave. We already have that, it’s called prison. Locking someone on their own home by welding the door shut may pass as acceptable in totalitarian China, here we do not tolerate tyranny.

The way I've been using confinement might have been a translation issue. Fine, let's go with lockdown.

You didn't see people rioting and governments falling because of it, because yeah, when hospitals were reaching their limit and people were literally dying in their bed with no help whatsoever (Spain) people accepted country wide lockdowns.
And again: Lives were saved because of it. It'd be good to remember that.

Most of Europe accepted it, in fact. With a large portion of the population (well, according to statistic) agreed with it. You call that tyranny when the majority agrees?
Unless again the problem is defiance against a government and official statistics, but then there's a bigger problem at large that has nothing to do with lockdown.

Your take on freedom almost sound masochistic. Sure, let the virus go rampant in the name of freedom to the point where none of us trying to stay safe will be able to go outside without endangering ourselves. It'll still be our "choice" to not have much of a choice anymore, great!

Austria is having a lockdown for everyone until 12/13. The vaccine is mandatory in that, after that date those who don't have the vaccine will continue being in lockdown. There is talk of possible fines for not getting vaccinated but where are you getting confinement from?

They were just correcting me on the use of the word.

 

[Foxi4]

The way I've been using confinement might have been a translation issue. Fine, let's go with lockdown.

You didn't see people rioting and governments falling because of it, because yeah, when hospitals were reaching their limit and people were literally dying in their bed with no help whatsoever (Spain) people accepted country wide lockdowns.
And again: Lives were saved because of it. It'd be good to remember that.

Most of Europe accepted it, in fact. With a large portion of the population (well, according to statistic) agreed with it. You call that tyranny when the majority agrees?
Unless again the problem is defiance against a government and official statistics, but then there's a bigger problem at large that has nothing to do with lockdown.

Your take on freedom almost sound masochistic. Sure, let the virus go rampant in the name of freedom to the point where none of us trying to stay safe will be able to go outside without endangering ourselves. It'll still be our "choice" to not have much of a choice anymore, great!


They were just correcting me on the word.

What kinds of news channels were you watching, exactly? There were protests all over the continent. Not that it matters since you’ve resolved that bit of confusion - as long as your intent isn’t to put people in literal cells until they change their minds, I can find common ground with you on some aspects.

Austria is having a lockdown for everyone until 12/13. The vaccine is mandatory in that, after that date those who don't have the vaccine will continue being in lockdown. There is talk of possible fines for not getting vaccinated but where are you getting confinement from?

What happens if you don’t pay the fine because you consider it unjust? What if you can’t pay? You *are* going to get arrested at some point, someone will knock on your door eventually, and that person will have a gun.

 

[deinonychus71]

What kinds of news channels were you watching, exactly? There were protests all over the continent. Not that it matters since you’ve resolved that bit of confusion - as long as your intent isn’t to put people in literal cells until they change their minds, I can find common ground with you on some aspects.

French and British news. I'm not saying everyone was happy, but most people were abiding by the restrictions for the greater good.

 

[Deleted member 507653]

So is smoking, so is alcohol, so is being fat, so is driving more than just over walking pace, so is pumping out a bunch of pretty much destined to be criminals because you can't/won't figure out birth control... all of those solved probably with less effort than even if this virus could be solved with a single injection of saline into a compliant populous (plenty of substances effectively banned, exercise is not hard, speed limits are a thing, birth licenses/forced sterilisation is easy). So was it in the years leading up to now with actually far worse diseases (more transmissible, more serious adverse effects) or diseases measured on the same scales (see flu most years).
Was it a failure in the past, double standards or is this actually justified by some standard (maybe for reasons I am not considering)? Or is it an overreach by a fearful government running at the behest of the tyranny of the majority?

You brought up a bunch of issues in this world, and then showed how we solved them with policy. Yeah you got it, the pandemic is the same way. We can solve it with policy.

And again correct with diseases, we used policy to solve those in the past. In 1948 Austria eradicated polio with a mandatory vaccine. I see the current vaccine mandate very in line with past standards.

 

[Foxi4]

French and British news. I'm not saying everyone was happy, but most people were abiding by the restrictions for the greater good.

The restrictions weren’t that unreasonable - I can avoid large crowds and I can only shop in person for bare necessities. I’m not “entitled to go to the cinema”, that’s not a right. I do have a right to walk around and catch some fresh air without a government stooge looking over my shoulder, and I have, by myself, since that is reasonable during a pandemic. What I gathered from your post was confinement, which is another way of saying imprisonment, but that is not what you meant, so I have no quarrel on that point.

You brought up a bunch of issues in this world, and then showed how we solved them with policy. Yeah you got it, the pandemic is the same way. We can solve it with policy.

And again correct with diseases, we used policy to solve those in the past. In 1948 Austria eradicated polio with a mandatory vaccine. I see the current vaccine mandate very in line with past standards.

The United States eradicated polio with no mandate. Seems like the mandate was unnecessary - peer pressure was plenty. If I could pay a tax that ensures the government doesn’t do anything, I’d overpay every year.

 

[Deleted member 507653]

What happens if you don’t pay the fine because you consider it unjust? What if you can’t pay? You *are* going to get arrested at some point, someone will knock on your door eventually, and that person will have a gun.

If you get arrested that's for failure to pay the fine not failure to vaccinate. I don't know what its like in austria but here in the US, you cant be jailed for fines youre not able to pay. If you're assuming they're going to use the fine as some overpriced gimmick to force people into jail...thats a can of conspiracy I don't want to go down.

The United States eradicated polio with no mandate. Seems like the mandate was unnecessary - peer pressure was plenty. If I could pay a tax that ensures the government doesn’t do anything, I’d overpay every year.

The question I was responding to was, is the current mandate from Austria in line with its past standards or is it a huge overreach of its government? Hence why I referenced Austria's past not the US's. Of course there's many ways to get something done, but that doesn't mean all others are the wrong way.

 

[Foxi4]

If you get arrested that's for failure to pay the fine not failure to vaccinate. I don't know what its like in austria but here in the US, you cant be jailed for fines youre not able to pay. If you're assuming they're going to use the fine as some overpriced gimmick to force people into jail...thats a can of conspiracy I don't want to go down.

You are 100% going to be arrested and taken to court for fines that are overdue, in the U.S. and right now. Failure to attend a court proceeding results in sending the bailiffs your way. Removing the cause of arrest by one degree doesn’t negate the initial cause - lack of consent. If the government makes wearing red socks illegal, you get fined and refuse to pay the fine because it is *absurd*, your liberty will be in peril. Even if you don’t get put in jail, the mere act of taking money away from you by force (since debt collection is a thing) effectively means that you were performing slave labour on behalf of an unjust government for the duration it took to earn said money. Either way you’re losing - the government has more and bigger guns. That’s precisely why we have checks and balances in place.

 

[FAST6191]

You brought up a bunch of issues in this world, and then showed how we solved them with policy. Yeah you got it, the pandemic is the same way. We can solve it with policy.

And again correct with diseases, we used policy to solve those in the past. In 1948 Austria eradicated polio with a mandatory vaccine. I see the current vaccine mandate very in line with past standards.

They are extant issues (plenty of smokers, drunks, distracted drivers, families statistically likely to have massively worse outcomes still in existence). The trouble comes in that solving them tends to be viewed as a massive overreach to human rights (do you want to go get a breeding license or be forcibly sterilised if you do not conform to some ideal of human form?), economic issues up the arse, or at least a massive double standard.

If you want to trample over those rights then freedom of speech (amusingly enough one of those rights, one that if we restricted speech to only those of considerable intellect and demonstrated expertise, maybe even those things designed not to hurt feelings, would probably make for a better discourse if we are continuing with examples of utopia at the cost of rights) allows you to claim you want to do that. From where I sit that is a massive overreach/breach of rights for little real gain -- save that sort of thing for something that is truly deadly, massively transmissible and likely to wipe out ridiculous amounts of the population (positive tests to death and serious outcomes ratio is fairly low as these things go, transmissibility nowhere near the big boys). Opening the door to something minor invites them to do it again when it happens next time, and possibly just that little bit less deadly (maybe half the already low ratio) -- just as there is little as permanent as a temporary measure when it comes to government then a little breach of rights does rather sit poorly. Sucks for some but that is the cost of life.

 

[Foxi4]

The question I was responding to was, is the current mandate from Austria in line with its past standards or is it a huge overreach of its government? Hence why I referenced Austria's past not the US's. Of course there's many ways to get something done, but that doesn't mean all others are the wrong way.

Only the ways that infringe on inalienable rights which exist precisely in order to protect the citizenry collectively from government tyranny by way of protecting each and every individual they concern.

They are extant issues (plenty of smokers, drunks, distracted drivers, families statistically likely to have massively worse outcomes still in existence). The trouble comes in that solving them tends to be viewed as a massive overreach to human rights (do you want to go get a breeding license or be forcibly sterilised if you do not conform to some ideal of human form?), economic issues up the arse, or at least a massive double standard.

If you want to trample over those rights then freedom of speech (amusingly enough one of those rights, one that if we restricted speech to only those of considerable intellect and demonstrated expertise, maybe even those things designed not to hurt feelings, would probably make for a better discourse if we are continuing with examples of utopia at the cost of rights) allows you to claim you want to do that. From where I sit that is a massive overreach/breach of rights for little real gain -- save that sort of thing for something that is truly deadly, massively transmissible and likely to wipe out ridiculous amounts of the population (positive tests to death and serious outcomes ratio is fairly low as these things go, transmissibility nowhere near the big boys). Opening the door to something minor invites them to do it again when it happens next time, and possibly just that little bit less deadly (maybe half the already low ratio) -- just as there is little as permanent as a temporary measure when it comes to government then a little breach of rights does rather sit poorly. Sucks for some but that is the cost of life.

ETA to climate crisis lockdown.

 

[FAST6191]

The question I was responding to was, is the current mandate from Austria in line with its past standards or is it a huge overreach of its government? Hence why I referenced Austria's past not the US's. Of course there's many ways to get something done, but that doesn't mean all others are the wrong way.

Except we generally go by UN human rights, European human rights, not whatever they cooked up in the 1940s (I am sure you would be more than happy to pick and choose out of those as well rather than be bound by them, though I must confess I am not sure what goes for gay rights, women's rights, free speech and such during that timeframe if we are holding it up as some kind of paradigm). I certainly have my issues with the current one (there was a nice case not so long ago the ECHR, European court of human rights, held up as just that calling the Islamic prophet muhammed a paedophile, which there is even possibly historical accounts of, is worthy of sanction and that originated in Austria) but different topic.

 

[AlexMCS]

I got sick with CoViD-19 in March, despite being moderately careful: maintaining social distance (I LOVE staying home and playing games/working remotely and having nothing to do with people in person except for close friends/family), wearing N95 masks, using alcohol on my hands etc. I still am.
Due to the freaking dentist's lack of care (got my initial symptoms exactly 12 days after that appointment), I got sick and almost died. My SpO2 got down to the 80s, I had to use an oxygen tank for almost 4 weeks just to avoid being admitted into a hospital.

Why is compulsory vaccination being praised? It's a blatant violation of human rights!
Not even China, a country with no regards for its people, went that far.

Not being vaccinated doesn't automatically make me a liability or a walking virus dispenser.
I have no qualms with the restrictions to those that do not get the jab. It's understandable and even acceptable in some cases.
I rarely leave my place and I don't get in contact with pretty much anyone other than my wife, who also does not leave home. Why should I be forced to be vaccinated? I'm more at risk than a risk!

As someone very wary of long-term side effects, specially on the mRNA vaccines, I'd rather wait more time to see if it's worth taking the vax.

I'm quite similar in thought to Foxi4, I just think, as someone who actually got the damn disease, that the cost/benefit ratio of getting a shot is too high to me, at the moment.

This whole fiasco could be solved with a better way to check for the disease. Confirmed contagion? Forced lockdown. Problem solved.

As a final note, Covid-19 is not the T-virus. The lethality is 3%. Just don't take stupid risks and you'll most likely never get it, regardless of vaccinations.

 

[Purple_Shyguy]

Personally I think the unvaccinated should have to wear stickers indicating so.

So this way we know who to point at on the street and shout "Shame! Shame!"

 

[cubes]

Horrible! I know so many people from Austria that don't want to get vaccinated. Praying for all the families.

 

[Alexander1970]

Horrible! I know so many people from Austria that don't want to get vaccinated. Praying for all the families.

Unfortunately the People (mostly the "Vaccinated Section") only speaks from the Refusers.

In the last Weeks many from the Covid deceased vaccinated People had Pre-existing conditions like kidney disease, heart surgery and things like that and yet they were "forced" to have the vaccination.
Many People have now really Fear....

Other People like me want the "Dead vaccine" which was denied from the EU and/or Austria a year ago (Sinovac for Example)......





But yes,blame it on us....

 

[Taleweaver]

...I don't really know what to say here.

*sigh* I've said before that I think the vaccine should be mandatory (except for those with underlying medical conditions). I still think so, though I hoped it wouldn't come to this.

But now that it has come to this, I'm not going to walk back on my statement. I had, and still have, my arguments for my reasonings. My girlfriend works in a hospital. The number of patients are on the rise again in Belgium as well (I'll probably blog a bit about it if I find the time). But the only ones in the intensive care section are either unvaccinated people(1) or those with underlying medical ("pathological" is the word she uses, but I don't know the difference). And it's mostly the former.


I know and like @Alexander1970 a lot, and while I respect his personal decision, I'm afraid the situation has simply become too grave to rely upon Austrian individuals to rely upon.

I mean...a quick google shows a scaringly steep peak in infections. To anything above the start of the year, which was before vaccinations even started. That's cause of worry.


I haven't read all the posts yet (but I will). Thus far I can only hope things'll get better.

@Alexander1970 : I understand if you hate me. And that's okay. I was hoping our disagreements in opinion wouldn't come to this, but...it didn't turn out the way we'd hope...




(1): and remember: everyone had their chance for both shots by now

 

[Deleted member 568587]

So here in America a little over 50% of the population is vaccinated (supposedly) If true, where is the evidence that there's a 50% reduction in covid? Also in the beginning the year we were sold one single vaccine that's going to save the world, then why did it later turn into two vaccines? And now a booster? They may even be up to 3 vaccines or will be soon. So that proves that the original vaccine did not work and they thought it did. Why would anyone want to enter something in their body that can not be un-entered that later ends up not being what they said it was in the first place? Why would you continue to trust someone that got you to inject something in you that didn't accomplish what it was supposed to accomplish? Where is the line if they get up to 30 vaccines required to be vaccinated will you gladly continue to take them? What if they say you need a vaccine with every meal? Is there any tipping point that exists in you or have you given your complete mind body and soul over to trust in the Government? Do you know these people personally to have this much faith in them? Christians have blind faith in Jesus this sounds like blind faith in the Government.

 

[Alexander1970]

...I don't really know what to say here.

*sigh* I've said before that I think the vaccine should be mandatory (except for those with underlying medical conditions). I still think so, though I hoped it wouldn't come to this.

But now that it has come to this, I'm not going to walk back on my statement. I had, and still have, my arguments for my reasonings. My girlfriend works in a hospital. The number of patients are on the rise again in Belgium as well (I'll probably blog a bit about it if I find the time). But the only ones in the intensive care section are either unvaccinated people(1) or those with underlying medical ("pathological" is the word she uses, but I don't know the difference). And it's mostly the former.


I know and like @Alexander1970 a lot, and while I respect his personal decision, I'm afraid the situation has simply become too grave to rely upon Austrian individuals to rely upon.

I mean...a quick google shows a scaringly steep peak in infections. To anything above the start of the year, which was before vaccinations even started. That's cause of worry.


I haven't read all the posts yet (but I will). Thus far I can only hope things'll get better.

@Alexander1970 : I understand if you hate me. And that's okay. I was hoping our disagreements in opinion wouldn't come to this, but...it didn't turn out the way we'd hope...




(1): and remember: everyone had their chance for both shots by now

Why I should hate you,my Freind ?
You have your opinion and I mine.And we accept/respect each other as Human Person.

Why should I hate someone ?

- it is very,very good,that we have Vaccines.
- Thank God People use the Vaccination,really,that is very good !

That´s it,my Friend.Why should I hate you ? Because you have a different Opinion than me ?
Oh come on.


Believe me,we have enough troubles since our "Chancellor" Schallenberg said yesterday:

"I would appologize for the 4th Lockdown,to the 65 % (Note: that means the Vaccinated People in Austia) of Austrias Citizen,these People have done very well and done all correct...."


A greater division of society and incitement of the vaccinated against the unvaccinated can no longer be practiced ..... Oh yes, Herr Hitler exemplified this to perfection and we're already doing everything again ... learned perfectly from the past.

 

[Deleted member 568587]

Personally I think the unvaccinated should have to wear stickers indicating so.

So this way we know who to point at on the street and shout "Shame! Shame!"

Should segregate restaurants and water fountains too!

I'm feeling deja vu here for some reason.

 

[Alexander1970]

...I don't really know what to say here.

*sigh* I've said before that I think the vaccine should be mandatory (except for those with underlying medical conditions). I still think so, though I hoped it wouldn't come to this.

But now that it has come to this, I'm not going to walk back on my statement. I had, and still have, my arguments for my reasonings. My girlfriend works in a hospital. The number of patients are on the rise again in Belgium as well (I'll probably blog a bit about it if I find the time). But the only ones in the intensive care section are either unvaccinated people(1) or those with underlying medical ("pathological" is the word she uses, but I don't know the difference). And it's mostly the former.


I know and like @Alexander1970 a lot, and while I respect his personal decision, I'm afraid the situation has simply become too grave to rely upon Austrian individuals to rely upon.

I mean...a quick google shows a scaringly steep peak in infections. To anything above the start of the year, which was before vaccinations even started. That's cause of worry.


I haven't read all the posts yet (but I will). Thus far I can only hope things'll get better.

@Alexander1970 : I understand if you hate me. And that's okay. I was hoping our disagreements in opinion wouldn't come to this, but...it didn't turn out the way we'd hope...




(1): and remember: everyone had their chance for both shots by now

By the Way,if you read the Posts,you will realize,I also get my Vaccination....that one,I will choose.