Austria first country to make Covid vaccine mandatory

Status
Not open for further replies.

Foxi4

Endless Trash
Global Moderator
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
28,521
Trophies
2
Location
Gaming Grotto
XP
26,029
Country
Poland
There is more than enough moral and legal precedent for a country to tax behaviors that are causing the country extra financial stress (or for any reason really). Cigarettes should be heavily taxed. Sugar should be heavily taxed. Gasoline should be heavily taxed. Being unvaccinated should be heavily taxed.
For the record, smoking and obesity are only “causing the country financial stress” because of the insistence on state-funded healthcare. None of this would’ve been a problem if everybody paid out of pocket for their healthcare. It’s also worth noting that combined duty and tax for tobacco products in the UK, a country with a single payer public healthcare system, total at £9.96 billion. The total NHS expenditure on treating patients who suffer from illnesses related to their smoking is in the neighbourhood of £2.6 billion, or at least that’s what the government reported in 2015. Not only are smokers paying for their own care already, they’re paying into the system more than they “stress it”. In fact, they don’t just pay for their own care, they pay for *other people’s care* to an astonishing degree, and that’s a fact.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...15/cost-of-smoking-to-the-nhs-in-england-2015

https://www.statista.com/statistics/284329/tobacco-duty-united-kingdom-hmrc-tax-receipts/
 
  • Like
Reactions: tabzer

tabzer

Maybe authoritarian
Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
2,686
Trophies
1
Age
37
XP
2,124
Country
Japan
I just think anti-vaxxers should be treated the same way I would be treated if I walked around in public naked.

Sounds spiteful. You should consider that people who are not vaccinated can be "pro-vax" and the whole pro/anti divisive language is harmful itself. I think the amount of effort you put into pushing the vaccine onto others is plain creepy.
 

FAST6191

Techromancer
Editorial Team
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
34,315
Trophies
2
Website
trastindustries.com
XP
23,393
Country
United Kingdom
There's a lot to unpack here, so everyone forgive me if I miss something.
  1. Obesity is not contagious. A person is only going to become obese due to their choices and predispositions, not because of any other obese person.
  2. I consider it reasonable for obese people to have to pay higher taxes or healthcare premiums if they are causing a financial strain on the healthcare system.
  3. It would be inappropriate to ban obese people from, for example, entering a public school, since obesity is not a communicable disease.
  4. As respectfully as possible, nobody cares about your delicate little sensibilities with regard to seeing obese people. It's purely subjective.
  5. Assuming you live where obesity isn't considered an immutable characteristic or protected class, don't hire obese people if you're worried about their productivity. If I ran a business, I wouldn't hire anyone unvaccinated, nor should I.
  6. Calling COVID-19 the "kung flu" is actually racist, it's tone-deaf, and it perpetuates several harmful myths. It is becoming more clear to me than it was already that numerous staff members are toxic as hell, and I'm starting to realize that a site that allows staff members' toxicity to go unchecked is probably itself toxic.
Predominantly yes. However what is seen as acceptable tends to track or be perpetuated so good enough for me (plus all those fun studies that note it as being socially contagious and similar social contagions being treated as such).
Fair enough.
OK.
Care to bet on that across a population grouping?
I prefer a more subtle approach and just to consider it a massive negative and have to be offset by the mad skills, them being unlikely to leave me if I need that (cost of acquisition of new staff and all that) or cost of salary and associated extras.
Hahahaha. Kung flu. You can cry racism if you want (can't remember if you did in the past but it is like boy who cried wolf at this point in that it holds so very little cache), don't see it myself though and can't get remotely close.
 

Lacius

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
17,240
Trophies
2
XP
16,450
Country
United States
Sounds spiteful.
Considering I don't actually want to walk around without clothes, I'm not sure how it could reasonably be considered spiteful.

people who are not vaccinated can be "pro-vax"
By definition, they can't.

I think the amount of effort you put into pushing the vaccine onto others is plain creepy.
I think perpetuating anti-vax nonsense is creepier, particularly when the result is a literal loss of life.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KingVamp

tabzer

Maybe authoritarian
Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
2,686
Trophies
1
Age
37
XP
2,124
Country
Japan
Considering I don't actually want to walk around without clothes, I'm not sure how it could reasonably be considered spiteful.

Considering that walking around in the nude is not the same as being unvaccinated, I don't really see any other rationalization to your attachment to how either are treated.

By definition, they can't.

The definition is whimsical by design. Would you say that people who haven't had abortions cannot be pro-choice? I can't get vaccinated but can advocate for its availability and your choice to get it.

I think perpetuating anti-vax nonsense is creepier, particularly when the result is a literal loss of life.

I haven't seen attempts to punish people for getting vaccinated, which I definitely would consider creepy. It probably exists. Surprised that you acknowledge that your own actions are creepy. Didn't think you recognized the duality of human nature or yourself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlexMCS

Lacius

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
17,240
Trophies
2
XP
16,450
Country
United States
Considering that walking around in the nude is not the same as being unvaccinated, I don't really see any other rationalization to your attachment to how either are treated.
You're right. Being unvaccinated is worse. The point, however, was that the government already restricts the choices you make with your body regarding what you're allowed to do in certain public spaces, and it is no different with vaccination. However, neither is a violation of my right to bodily autonomy, since I could opt to stay home if I didn't want to wear clothes. Just as most people would say a person can walk around naked all they want as long as they do it in the privacy of their own home, the same goes for the boneheaded choice to be unvaccinated.

The definition is whimsical by design. Would you say that people who haven't had abortions cannot be pro-choice?
You're confusing pro-choice with pro-abortion. A person can be pro-choice but very much against getting an abortion.

I can't get vaccinated but can advocate for its availability and your choice to get it.
You're confusing pro-choice with pro-vaccine. A person can be very much in favor of a person having a choice regarding vaccination while also spreading anti-vax nonsense and refusing to do the intellectually and morally responsible thing and get one.

I haven't seen attempts to punish people for getting vaccinated, which I definitely would consider creepy
Agreed.

Surprised that you acknowledge that your own actions are creepy. Didn't think you recognized the duality of human nature or yourself.
Did I?

Utter nonsense. By that definition you can't be pro anything that you don’t do yourself. Here's me thinking I was pro gay marriage when I can't possibly be since I didn't marry a man.
The definition is whimsical by design. Would you say that people who haven't had abortions cannot be pro-choice? I can't get vaccinated but can advocate for its availability and your choice to get it.
An anti-vax person, by definition, is someone who is opposed to vaccination, whether it's their own vaccination or others', and the opposition is often accompanied by anti-scientific conspiracy theories. By some definitions, it also includes an opposition to vaccine mandates, but that's not how I was using it.

Someone who is anti-LGBT rights, like being against gay marriage, is against the legal right for someone to get married, by definition. A person doesn't have to get gay married to be a supporter of LGBT rights. Y'all seem to be confusing situations that are about choice with a situation that is not. I don't think anyone is arguing here that a person shouldn't be able to get vaccinated if they want to get vaccinated. The problem is people are expressing an opposition to vaccination and not getting vaccinated, which anti-vax and a problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dakitten
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
4,726
Trophies
3
XP
7,164
Country
United Kingdom
An anti-vax person, by definition, is someone who is opposed to vaccination, whether it's their own vaccination or others', and the opposition is often accompanied by anti-scientific conspiracy theories. By some definitions, it also includes an opposition to vaccine mandates, but that's not how I was using it.

Someone who is anti-LGBT rights, like being against gay marriage, is against the legal right for someone to get married, by definition. A person doesn't have to get gay married to be a supporter of LGBT rights. Y'all seem to be confusing situations that are about choice with a situation that is not. I don't think anyone is arguing here that a person shouldn't be able to get vaccinated if they want to get vaccinated. The problem is people are expressing an opposition to vaccination and not getting vaccinated, which anti-vax and a problem.
Nice try but the statement wasn't an anti-vax person, it was someone who wasn't vaccinated.

Your reply to tabzer is blatantly wrong here...

tabzer said:
people who are not vaccinated can be "pro-vax"
Lacius said:
By definition, they can't.

You can be not vaccinated due to allergy and still be pro-vax.
 
Last edited by subcon959,
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
13,839
Trophies
3
Age
51
Location
Austria
XP
2,627
Country
Austria
7XNIqri.jpg
???
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
13,839
Trophies
3
Age
51
Location
Austria
XP
2,627
Country
Austria
Today our new Chancellor Nehammer has decided Lockdown ends for our vaccinated Citizens,not for the Unvaccinated.

For the Mandatory Vaccination Law there are also News.
There will (may!) be no Compulsory Demonstration for Vaccination and also no Custody.

A "Snapshot",as we can probably assume.....the last 2 Chancellors has also promised many,many,many Things....
 

tabzer

Maybe authoritarian
Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
2,686
Trophies
1
Age
37
XP
2,124
Country
Japan
You're right. Being unvaccinated is worse. The point, however, was that the government already restricts the choices you make with your body regarding what you're allowed to do in certain public spaces, and it is no different with vaccination. However, neither is a violation of my right to bodily autonomy, since I could opt to stay home if I didn't want to wear clothes. Just as most people would say a person can walk around naked all they want as long as they do it in the privacy of their own home, the same goes for the boneheaded choice to be unvaccinated.


You're confusing pro-choice with pro-abortion. A person can be pro-choice but very much against getting an abortion.


You're confusing pro-choice with pro-vaccine. A person can be very much in favor of a person having a choice regarding vaccination while also spreading anti-vax nonsense and refusing to do the intellectually and morally responsible thing and get one.


Agreed.


Did I?



An anti-vax person, by definition, is someone who is opposed to vaccination, whether it's their own vaccination or others', and the opposition is often accompanied by anti-scientific conspiracy theories. By some definitions, it also includes an opposition to vaccine mandates, but that's not how I was using it.

Someone who is anti-LGBT rights, like being against gay marriage, is against the legal right for someone to get married, by definition. A person doesn't have to get gay married to be a supporter of LGBT rights. Y'all seem to be confusing situations that are about choice with a situation that is not. I don't think anyone is arguing here that a person shouldn't be able to get vaccinated if they want to get vaccinated. The problem is people are expressing an opposition to vaccination and not getting vaccinated, which anti-vax and a problem.

Lavius, if someone could make a stroke look good, it would probably be you. But what would really sell it is if you were to put some myocarditis into it.
 

smf

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
5,391
Trophies
1
XP
4,016
Country
United Kingdom
What are you talking about? I made the case that China's government is not a representation of Chinese people, at large--which you should agree with.

Let me reiterate what you seem to think racism is:
What are you droning on about.

That is an example of racism, that isn't what racism is.

Covid 19 is neither the fault of the chinese people or the chinese government.

It might help if you try to make a point, rather than trying to catch someone out with your mental gymnastics
 

Foxi4

Endless Trash
Global Moderator
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
28,521
Trophies
2
Location
Gaming Grotto
XP
26,029
Country
Poland
Predominantly yes. However what is seen as acceptable tends to track or be perpetuated so good enough for me (plus all those fun studies that note it as being socially contagious and similar social contagions being treated as such).
Fair enough.
OK.
Care to bet on that across a population grouping?
I prefer a more subtle approach and just to consider it a massive negative and have to be offset by the mad skills, them being unlikely to leave me if I need that (cost of acquisition of new staff and all that) or cost of salary and associated extras.
Hahahaha. Kung flu. You can cry racism if you want (can't remember if you did in the past but it is like boy who cried wolf at this point in that it holds so very little cache), don't see it myself though and can't get remotely close.
I don’t know why you’re getting pushback on this - it’s been a well-known fact for many, many years now that obesity is what scientists describe as “socially contagious”. The chances of a given individual becoming overweight increase by an astonishing 57% if they have an obese friend.

https://www.printfriendly.com/p/g/PLhSxk

Here’s a NYT article on the matter, with an analysis courtesy of the New England Journal of Medicine. I did everyone a huge solid and bypassed the paywall, since apparently I’m the only person on this website who knows how to do that, given some previous experiences of posting articles from pages with paywalls. Original link for the sake of consistency:

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/25/health/25cnd-fat.html

Matters look even worse for households - if mom and dad are fat, guess who else is going to be fat? The children. It’s not “glandular”, it’s laziness and ordering take-away 6 days a week. That, and “not moving”. Not really a thread about obesity, just chiming in since it absolutely is contagious, and it spreads through communities just like a contagious pathogen would.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlexMCS

smf

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
5,391
Trophies
1
XP
4,016
Country
United Kingdom
Sounds spiteful. You should consider that people who are not vaccinated can be "pro-vax" and the whole pro/anti divisive language is harmful itself. I think the amount of effort you put into pushing the vaccine onto others is plain creepy.
Someone who is pro vaccine but unable to be vaccinated, wouldn't find it creepy to recommend that everyone who can be vaccinated should be vaccinated.

On careful consideration, it sounds like someone who is either pretending they can't be vaccinated or is hiding their anti vax stance behind their their inability to be vaccinated.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
4,726
Trophies
3
XP
7,164
Country
United Kingdom
Not really a thread about obesity, just chiming in since it absolutely is contagious, and it spreads through communities just like a contagious pathogen would.
I think obesity is a relevant thing to discuss in the context of Covid since it's a huge factor in outcomes. Maybe the government should be promoting losing weight instead of mandating medical procedures. I personally know a few people who see the vaccine as an alternative to a healthier lifestyle.
 

Foxi4

Endless Trash
Global Moderator
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
28,521
Trophies
2
Location
Gaming Grotto
XP
26,029
Country
Poland
Covid 19 is neither the fault of the chinese people or the chinese government.
The global COVID 19 pandemic is absolutely the fault of the unscrupulous Chinese government that thought it could keep it under wraps long enough to make the problem “go away” unnoticed - they’ve only informed the international community about it once they’ve realised that there’s no stopping this thing, no matter what totalitarian measures they use, and they’ve only shared the bare minimum amount of information until it was too late to contain the virus. You are not going to convince me that they started proactively arresting people or welding apartment building doors shut when their own scientists saw “no evidence of human-to-human transmission”. There is written record of all of this, and no point in arguing about it. Most zoonotic viruses tend to circulate for a short amount of time without causing an epidemic, they’re very localised and die out quickly, that’s what the hope was here. The WHO has already conducted an investigation in the matter and concluded that the virus was circulating through China long before we even heard about it on the news, at least since November 2019, with the upper limit being October.

https://www.businessinsider.com/cor...urope-china-before-wuhan-outbreak-2020-12?amp
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlexMCS
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
13,839
Trophies
3
Age
51
Location
Austria
XP
2,627
Country
Austria
Novavax has Production "Issues".....it seems more and more likely - maybe not until next Year.
Valneva is still in "Rolling Review" Process.

The Mandatory Vaccination Law has now the Addition Line:
"New approved Vaccines can be added to the List of Mandatory Vaccines."
 

Lacius

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
17,240
Trophies
2
XP
16,450
Country
United States
You can be not vaccinated due to allergy and still be pro-vax.
I agree that a person who is not vaccinated because they cannot medically do so is not necessarily anti-vax, but it should be clear from my previous statements that isn't what anti-vax means, and it isn't what I mean by anti-vax.

If a person willfully refuses to get the COVID-19 vaccine at this point, but they're medically able to do so, they are anti-vax by virtually every definition I'm aware of.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: AlexMCS
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
4,726
Trophies
3
XP
7,164
Country
United Kingdom
I agree that a person who is not vaccinated because they cannot medically do so is not necessarily anti-vax, but it should be clear from my previous statements that isn't what anti-vax means, and it isn't what I mean by anti-vax.
Why are you deliberately ignoring what was actually said and choosing to respond to what wasn't said?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
    KennieDaMeanie @ KennieDaMeanie: Uremum has two wiis