Austria first country to make Covid vaccine mandatory

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SG854

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It's called wanting to learn, wanting to think for your self, wanting to know truth. And yes, my channels are slowly growing, so someone is watching.
You vomited a crap ton of videos. If you want to get people to look away that's one way to do it.
 
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Lacius

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The difference is that I source that actual sources such as Klaus Schwab, The World Economic Forum, and so forth.

You on the other hand have so far quoted WIKI. So I mean if your debate must remain within the domain of own and controlled TV media and what WIKI says, then we're never arrive anywhere.
Not to turn this into a debate about the pros vs. cons of Wikipedia, but you do know the site requires reputable sources for its information, right?
 
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Zajumino

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The genetic evidence suggests the virus was naturally occurring, and until the evidence changes, the suggesting it was human-made is no more than a conspiracy theory.
Conspiracy theory? You do realize we are talking about China?

Anyways, its not a conspiracy theory because we do not yet know the origin of the virus. Plus, if you assume that a leak was an accident, there is no conspiracy to begin with.

On the other hand, if you think somebody deliberately engineered and released the virus, then I guess that would qualify.

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1656
 

Lacius

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Conspiracy theory? You do realize we are talking about China?

Anyways, its not a conspiracy theory because we do not yet know the origin of the virus. Plus, if you assume that a leak was an accident, there is no conspiracy to begin with.

On the other hand, if you think somebody deliberately engineered and released the virus, then I guess that would qualify.

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1656
Considering the lack of evidence, and the genetic evidence to the contrary, the suggestion the virus was human-made is indeed a conspiracy theory. That's a separate issue from the "lab leak hypothesis."
 
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Lucaserf

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Conspiracy theory? You do realize we are talking about China?

Anyways, its not a conspiracy theory because we do not yet know the origin of the virus. Plus, if you assume that a leak was an accident, there is no conspiracy to begin with.

On the other hand, if you think somebody deliberately engineered and released the virus, then I guess that would qualify.

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1656
If it had enough evidence to qualify it as a purposefuly released man-made virus, we would be dealing with biological warfare. If such thing was confirmed, the US (or any nation in beef with China) would be the first to say so. It would create a huge anti-China sentiment (It already did despite being only a conspiracy theory). Hell, if you want to speculate even further, it could even start a war
 

AlexMCS

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It's a fair comparison, since denying access to abortion is a violation of bodily autonomy, as is forcing two strangers to have sex.

"Hypothetical person" is not the same as a growing embryo, which is a new human individual, with its own DNA and makeup, even if you don't consider it as such.

But you have made your political and personal views clear here, so I get your point of view.

Think of the mothers of Stalin, Hitler, and Musk! Seriously, this kind of argument is parodied so often specifically because it appeals only to the emotions of the squeamish. It doesn't even really belong in this thread, but...

His quote was verbatim:
"Whether or not a person gets an abortion has no real effect on you or anyone else around you."

Which is completely wrong even in negative instances. I should have made it clearer then.
Nevertheless, the killings/massacres in history were all temporary.

Preserved, publicized knowledge is eternal. So, even if we'd only get one Carl Friedrich Gauss for every 1000+ street thugs, the whole humanity would profit from it, potentially forever. How can you fail to realize this?

Not to mention the great killers in history only did so because of their power. Great scientists didn't need much for their discoveries.

Likewise, thanks for those fighting the actual good fight, against such drivel (abortion + vaccine mandates).

As a scientist, you should stop taking discoveries/reports and studies/papers as gospel.
That is even more fanatical zealotry than some religions have.

A good scientist should never accept any discovery as absolute, knowing that science is a sound method, but not a complete one. It's a logical circle, mostly based on unverified premises.

Use it as a tool to help your decision making, and always keep in mind that your whole theory might be wrong.
That is the beauty of science.
 

Lacius

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"Hypothetical person" is not the same as a growing embryo, which is a new human individual, with its own DNA and makeup, even if you don't consider it as such.
Stepping away from the conversation about when personhood begins or whether or not an embryo is a person, the conversation to which you were responding was specifically about whether or not the hypothetical doctor or serial killer is deserving of rights or moral consideration based on their hypothetical lives; they aren't. But thank you for the respectful reply.
 
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AlexMCS

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Stepping away from the conversation about when personhood begins or whether or not an embryo is a person, the conversation to which you were responding was specifically about whether or not the hypothetical doctor or serial killer is deserving of rights or moral consideration based on their hypothetical lives; they aren't. But thank you for the respectful reply.

As a scientist, I can't assume I'm right either, just hope for it :)
 

Zajumino

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Considering the lack of evidence, and the genetic evidence to the contrary, the suggestion the virus was human-made is indeed a conspiracy theory. That's a separate issue from the "lab leak hypothesis."
I am only saying that it is possible, not that it is definitely true. A lack of evidence does not disprove anything, and genetic evidence is not necessarily conclusive. Remember that the lab leak hypothesis was originally dismissed as a conspiracy theory. In order to know for certain that the virus was not human-made, you would need to know about everything that went on in the Wuhan lab, which is impossible.

In the article I linked:
Prominent outlets such as PolitiFact and FactCheck.org have added editor’s notes to pieces that previously “debunked” the idea that the virus was created in a lab or could have been bioengineered—softening their position to one of an open question that is “in dispute.” For almost a year Facebook sought to control misinformation by banning stories suggesting that the coronavirus was man made. After renewed interest in the virus’s origin, Facebook lifted the ban.​

If it had enough evidence to qualify it as a purposefuly released man-made virus, we would be dealing with biological warfare. If such thing was confirmed, the US (or any nation in beef with China) would be the first to say so. It would create a huge anti-China sentiment (It already did despite being only a conspiracy theory). Hell, if you want to speculate even further, it could even start a war
Which is why I said it would qualify as a conspiracy theory.
 

Lacius

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I am only saying that it is possible, not that it is definitely true. A lack of evidence does not disprove anything, and genetic evidence is not necessarily conclusive.
There is no good evidence that it's true, likely true, or reasonably possible that the virus was human-created.

A lack of evidence for something can indeed discredit a proposition. If I constantly talk about my cat, but there's no evidence of a cat at my house, that suggests I'm wrong or lying about having a cat. Ignoring for a second that the human-created claim has a burden of proof it hasn't met, there is evidence (particularly genetic evidence) we'd expect to find if the virus were human-created. What we do know about the virus's genetic information falls well within what we'd expect from a naturally occurring coronavirus from the area. It isn't like it was a coincidence the lab was there. Scientists have been figuratively screaming from the mountaintops since before I was born about the very real chances of a coronavirus pandemic originating from that rough area.

I must also say the origins of the virus are irrelevant with regard to its infectiousness and mortality. The origins are also irrelevant with regard to the efficacy of masks, vaccines, mask mandates, vaccine mandates, etc.

Edit: Conspiracies often arise when people feel a loss of control. It's easier to think someone with nefarious intent is in control of everything vs. the world is a cold and random place.
 
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tabzer

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I disagree. It gives me physical gratification to reread my own posts.

Everyone is aware of that Locius.


It's measurable now, albeit subjectively and qualitatively

You are literally another mouth to feed and an contribution to the carbon footprint. Come out and say that you approve of population control.

"those dirty chinese, it was those awful wet markets fault, they should ban them"
China is pretty dirty, and so is America. I don't see how blaming a country and its policies are the same as blaming people. You are inserting racism with the extra step of attributing a country's problems to all of its people.

No, it's racist when you attack another country and blame them when it was a natural event.

Despite your attempt to rationalize this with your own racism, this is still stupid. A country is not a race, even if it is being blamed for a natural event.
 

Lacius

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You are literally another mouth to feed and an contribution to the carbon footprint. Come out and say that you approve of population control.
  1. It was my mother's choice to abort me or not (for whatever reason), nobody else's choice.
  2. You seem to be arguing for population control, not me?
 
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tabzer

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  1. It was my mother's choice to abort me or not (for whatever reason), nobody else's choice.
  2. You seem to be arguing for population control, not me?

You don't seem to understand that the argument is enforced abortion parallels enforced injection in respect to "my body, my choice." Or maybe you just forgot or are trying really hard to ignore it; I am uncertain.

"By not getting vaccinated, or an abortion, you are hurting everyone around you. The government should mandate these."
 

Lacius

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You don't seem to understand that the argument is enforced abortion parallels enforced injection in respect to "my body, my choice." Or maybe you just forgot or are trying really hard to ignore it; I am uncertain.

"By not getting vaccinated, or an abortion, you are hurting everyone around you. The government should mandate these."
Requiring proof of vaccination for certain privileges, like buses and public schools, is not a violation of one's right to bodily autonomy like denying a right to an abortion would be. If you want to make the stupid choice to not get vaccinated, don't get vaccinated, and don't make use of the things that require proof of vaccination.

Requiring proof of vaccination for certain privileges is as much a violation of one's right to bodily autonomy as laws requiring me to wear clothes in public.
 
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tabzer

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Requiring proof of vaccination for certain privileges, like buses and public schools, is not a violation of one's right to bodily autonomy like denying a right to an abortion would be. If you want to make the stupid choice to not get vaccinated, don't get vaccinated, and don't make use of the things that require proof of vaccination.

Requiring proof of vaccination for certain privileges is as much a violation of one's right to bodily autonomy as laws requiring me to wear clothes in public.

You are talking over me again. You aren't responding to what I said. You are gratifying your ego in front of everyone while ignoring what I actually said.
 

Lacius

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You are talking over me again. You aren't responding to what I said. You are gratifying your ego in front of everyone while ignoring what I actually said.
You're the one not listening to me, so I will say it one more time: A woman has a right to bodily autonomy regardless of the circumstances, and the same goes for everyone else. Barring a woman from a legal abortion violates that right. A mandated abortion violates that right. A mandated vaccine punishable by law violates that right. A law requiring me to wear pants at all times violates that right.

The right to bodily autonomy, however, doesn't extend to me wanting to walk around public spaces naked, it doesn't extend to an anti-masker wanting to enter a particular public building without a mask, and it doesn't extend to an anti-vaxxer wanting to ride a train without proof of vaccination.

I'm not the one talking past anybody.
 
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tabzer

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I'm sorry, I thought you were pro-vaccine mandates. Maybe I am misunderstanding.

it doesn't extend to an anti-vaxxer wanting to ride a train without proof of vaccination.

Lol. What about "pro-vaxxers"?

For the majority of what you are spouting about now in regards to rationalizing everyone diverge personal medical history to ride a bus, someone else already had a good enough response:

Wow what a highly ignorant analogy that does not apply to law there.

Firstly, as long as you are not committing a lewd or offensive act, are not harassing anyone or causing distress you can walk around naked if you want to. So yes you are utterly wrong on that one.

Here is some guidance as you are obviously lacking education in what you are talking about https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/nudity-public-guidance-handling-cases-naturism

Secondly, you are literally saying people should show proof of something to get on a bus or train and use public transport. In the 150 years public transport has existed we have never had any requirement to show anything to use the service as long as we are not crossing an international border. If you are actually for a vaccine passport to use a bus or train and this development does not ring alarm bells for you then there is no point talking to you. You obviously have no appreciation of basic freedoms and rights, you are not worth talking to.

But in general, it sounds like you are using your frustration with not being able to be naked wherever you want as a justification for even more oppression. Kind of weird.
 

SG854

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I'm sorry, I thought you were pro-vaccine mandates. Maybe I am misunderstanding.



Lol. What about "pro-vaxxers"?

For the majority of what you are spouting about now in regards to rationalizing everyone diverge personal medical history to ride a bus, someone else already had a good enough response:



But in general, it sounds like you are using your frustration with not being able to be naked wherever you want as a justification for even more oppression. Kind of weird.
He's not being frustrated about not being naked lol. Those are just examples for arguments sake. Don't be disingenuous.
 
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