Austria first country to make Covid vaccine mandatory

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He made the claim that any nonprofit is equally as susceptible to corruption as any capitalist for-profit corporation. That's demonstrably ridiculous in any number of ways, so I simply took advantage of that opening.


Corruption I'm not sure about, but that site and its creator are known for spreading misinformation, as well as having an obvious political bias.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Health_Defense
Sorry, I thought it was clear I was being facetious about the whole non-profit corruption thing. I get the flu jab every year and so do my kids.
 
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Xzi

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Sorry, I thought it was clear I was being facetious about the whole non-profit corruption thing. I get the flu jab every year and so do my kids.
Yeah, perhaps your definition of corruption is just more broad than my own. Political nonprofits are certainly built on more shaky ground than others in that regard, and tend to lie more freely in service of an agenda.
 
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Yeah, perhaps your definition of corruption is just more broad than my own. Political nonprofits are certainly built on more shaky ground than others in that regard, and tend to lie more freely in service of an agenda.
As I see it, the CDC does overall good. It is underfunded though, so the corruption comes into play with how they get the extra resources they need. The problem is that it's hard for the average person to tell the difference between what's real and what's a result of special interest lobbying/donations. I'm more on the questioning side, but I get that others might be more on the trusting side. What I don't get is how someone can be on the absolute blind faith side.
 
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UltraDolphinRevolution

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We’re all in this together in the sense that we’re all facing the same crisis. At no point did anyone sign off their rights just because China wasn’t very forthright with information about yet another virus originating from that part of the world until it took root in so many areas that eradicating it has become a pipe dream.
China has been the best in the world in terms of stopping the spread. You think the US would have managed better if it had broken out there? Or that it would have reacted differently if China had informed the US earlier? No way, Jose.
I still think COVID19 originated in the US (due to the blood sample analysis of the Red Cross), but even if it originated in Wuhan: Sars COV1 was first found in Guangzhou. That´s like saying Spain and Germany is "that part of the world".
 

Marc_78065

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Good. Hope the US follows suite some time soon. But I doubt it. Not when the moronic right are even trying to stop Biden's covid TESTING mandate for large companies under the false pretense that they are being mandated to take the vaccine. I think if people started calling it what is actually is here in the US, a TEST mandate, the right wouldn't be so incredibly stupid about it. I hope they start crashing through peoples windows, holding them down, and literally FORCING the vaccine. Fuck you, your body, and your "rights". The sooner the better.
Can't believe what I've just read. Do that yourself and expect people to defend themselves from a psycho like you.
 

Foxi4

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Because wanting the dismantling and bankrupting of a program that covers everyone, isn't spiteful.
Of course it’s not. I don’t have anything against those people, I do have a lot against paying for a service I don’t and never will use. They haven’t wronged me in any way, there’s no spite involved, I just dislike the concept on principle. I do not wish to be burdened with other people’s expenditure - I have my own insurance, thank you. A free market setup, as in an actually free market setup, would drive prices down anyway, so I’m doing everyone a favour.
China has been the best in the world in terms of stopping the spread. You think the US would have managed better if it had broken out there? Or that it would have reacted differently if China had informed the US earlier? No way, Jose.
I still think COVID19 originated in the US (due to the blood sample analysis of the Red Cross), but even if it originated in Wuhan: Sars COV1 was first found in Guangzhou. That´s like saying Spain and Germany is "that part of the world".
From what we’re being told. The Chinese media or the Chinese government cannot be trusted. I am also quite uncomfortable with welding people’s doors shut and chasing them around with armed police squads to make sure they’re not being a bit too free. Probably very effective, just like putting everyone in a cell would’ve been, which doesn’t make it right.
 
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I've never been killed in a car accident, so I'm going to just run in front of traffic and not wear a seat belt if I'm in the car.

There is no evidence that it will harm me.
That’s two completely different things, I can’t believe I’m going to sort of compare this to the flu but why not, since this vaccine is still in a way new, this may not make since right now. So every year people get the flu shot, and every year I keep hearing the same thing this a person passed away after about week even though they got the flu shot, in other cases they say the flu shot may have helped the person recover. Here’s the thing I haven’t got a flu shot in about 4 years now and I’m still good. To me a vaccine may give you a chance to stay healthy but at the same time it could make things worse. If you must know I’m waiting for them to eventually make pills for this thing. I haven’t bought over the counter medication since last year but again as my previous post I said, when I get sick it’s basically allergies, so that’s the medicine I buy. Not trying to convince anyone to not get the vaccine but to me I won’t because it’s still new and I think they just want people to be part of some statistics. It should really be a choice and if it’s still spreading it’s because schools are obviously open again and businesses. Hey if I can’t enter your business because I’m not vaccinated that’s okay with me, take out is still an option in many places. If you also must know, I still wear a mask because I got use to wearing one and honestly that’s the best I will do for people around me.
 

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As I see it, the CDC does overall good. It is underfunded though, so the corruption comes into play with how they get the extra resources they need. The problem is that it's hard for the average person to tell the difference between what's real and what's a result of special interest lobbying/donations. I'm more on the questioning side, but I get that others might be more on the trusting side. What I don't get is how someone can be on the absolute blind faith side.
Trust but verify. The CDC's only real role in this whole pandemic has been to review scientific documents (which themselves have already been peer-reviewed), and then assuming the methodology isn't flawed, make recommendations based on their findings/conclusions. The same documents are widely available to the public if you know where to look, but most people who "do their own research" would rather base their theories on memes and Facebook posts.
 
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Trust but verify. The CDC's only real role in this whole pandemic has been to review scientific documents (which themselves have already been peer-reviewed), and then assuming the methodology isn't flawed, make recommendations based on their findings/conclusions. The same documents are widely available to the public if you know where to look, but most people who "do their own research" would rather base their theories on memes and Facebook posts.
By the same token, people seem happy to reference the CDC when proselytizing the vaccine as if they are some sort of higher power so therein lies the issue. It's that damn scientism again.

Anyway, I just came across this fun article in the BMJ about a Pfizer whistle blower shedding light on their less than stellar practices during the vaccine trials.
 

tabzer

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He made the claim that any nonprofit is equally as susceptible to corruption as any capitalist for-profit corporation.

No I didn't. Read what I wrote. I kept it short and simple so you wouldn't keep making the same mistakes. I didn't say everything you said about everything is wrong just because you bungled up a few descriptors or made a wrong assumption. I said that nonprofits are vectors for corruption. They aren't "free from capitalism", and there is no rule that they have to output equal to their input.

You spiral out, and it's a little insane.
 

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No I didn't. Read what I wrote. I kept it short and simple so you wouldn't keep making the same mistakes. I didn't say everything you said about everything is wrong just because you bungled up a few descriptors or made a wrong assumption. I said that nonprofits are vectors for corruption. They aren't "free from capitalism", and there is no rule that they have to output equal to their input.

You spiral out, and it's a little insane.
The term you’re looking for is “overhead” and “speaking fees”. It’s very surprising just how profitable a non-profit can be, especially for the person running it.

BB7EC37D-96D9-467A-8780-C04A44441900.jpeg

Keep in mind that those are average salaries across particular percentiles in a particular state, but it demonstrates the point. You don’t have to exchange money under the table - you can just say it’s part of your operating cost, job done. Everything depends on how big the organisation is and how high up the ladder you are. It’s not uncommon for non-profit executives to earn upwards of a $100k a year just in salary, and orders of magnitude more in speaking fees, which is no chump change. Now, I am the last person to criticise someone for making a profit - good on them, but I have the uncanny ability to detect scams from a mile away, and that there is a scam.
 
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Xzi

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there is no rule that they have to output equal to their input.
Except there is, and I provided a source stating as much. If they fail to dedicate all income, excess or otherwise, to operating costs, they lose their nonprofit status. The government polices and monitors nonprofits much more thoroughly than churches with tax exempt status in this regard. Repeatedly doubling down after already being proven wrong is never going to suddenly make you right.

The term you’re looking for is “overhead” and “speaking fees”. It’s very surprising just how profitable a non-profit can be, especially for the person running it.

View attachment 286655

Keep in mind that those are average salaries across particular percentiles in a particular state, but it demonstrates the point. You don’t have to exchange money under the table - you can just say it’s part of your operating cost, job done. Everything depends on how big the organisation is and how high up the ladder you are. It’s not uncommon for non-profit executives to earn upwards of a $100k a year just in salary, and orders of magnitude more in speaking fees, which is no chump change. Now, I am the last person to criticise someone for making a profit - good on them, but I have the uncanny ability to detect scams from a mile away, and that there is a scam.
Lmao, even 83 grand a year is in poverty wage territory if you live close to either the West or East coast. A good rule of thumb is to check who the founder of a nonprofit is. If they were already rich and corrupt before starting the organization, odds are the organization itself follows suit in that corruption.
 

Foxi4

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Except there is, and I provided a source stating as much. If they fail to dedicate all income, excess or otherwise, to operating costs, they lose their nonprofit status. The government polices and monitors nonprofits much more thoroughly than churches with tax exempt status in this regard. Repeatedly doubling down after already being proven wrong is never going to suddenly make you right.


Lmao, even 83 grand a year is in poverty wage territory if you live close to either the West or East coast.
That is not how non-profit status works, and 83 grand a year is nowhere near “poverty range” in California. According to the Bureau of Labour and Statistics the median yearly income for an individual in Cali hovers around $31K a year. In fact, the median *household* income is measured at around $75K, so the average non-profit CEO in California earns more than an entire average household.

The idea that non-profits must dedicate all their income to charitable causes is nonsense, and the term “non-profit” is a misnomer. In fact, all non-profits are supposed to post a yearly profit in order to maintain their own sustainability. What they’re prohibited from doing is creating “private benefit”, that doesn’t mean they’re not allowed to set whatever salaries they fancy.

https://www.councilofnonprofits.org/myths-about-nonprofits
 
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Xzi

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That is not how non-profit status works, and 83 grand a year is nowhere near “poverty range” in California. According to the Bureau of Labour and Statistics the median yearly income for an individual in Cali hovers around $31K a year. In fact, the median *household* income is measured at around $75K, so the average non-profit CEO in California earns more than an entire average household.
That contradicts your own infographic. The average nonprofit CEO in California only makes $51K a year. And that's assuming a CEO exists at all, as many nonprofits are operated by committee at the top.

From my viewpoint, politically-focused nonprofits are worth putting into their own category, as they often operate on a similar principle to politically-focused churches. Both are just a means of tax avoidance.
 

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That contradicts your own infographic. The average nonprofit CEO in California only makes $51K a year. And that's assuming a CEO exists at all, as many nonprofits are operated by committee at the top.

From my viewpoint, politically-focused nonprofits are worth putting into their own category, as they often operate on a similar principle to politically-focused churches. Both are just a means of tax avoidance.
That’s not an average income of a CEO, that’s an average income of a non-profit employee. They have salaried and hourly employees just like any other private entity. A CEO would be classified as Top Earner, along with other executives. Not that it makes much of a difference, pretty much all levels of permanent non-profit employees earn above average income. The heavy lifting is done by volunteers who earn peanuts, if anything at all, because they’re there to actually do some good.

Your viewpoint is irrelevant - non-profit means non-profit. If you want to narrow things down to a specific category, like soup kitchens, then you should’ve done that. As it stands, most non-profits are *not* soup kitchens, they’re organised lobby groups, and some, as you yourself mention, are a method of laundering money.
 
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Xzi

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The idea that non-profits must dedicate all their income to charitable causes is nonsense, and the term “non-profit” is a misnomer. In fact, all non-profits are supposed to post a yearly profit in order to maintain their own sustainability. What they’re prohibited from doing is creating “private benefit”, that doesn’t mean they’re not allowed to set whatever salaries they fancy.
I didn't say "charitable causes," I specifically said "operating costs," which is inclusive of employee salaries. It should be a given that nobody works for free, but again, that's no evidence itself of malfeasance. Proving such a claim takes more journalistic legwork than anybody on this forum is willing to put in themselves.
 

Foxi4

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I didn't say "charitable causes," I specifically said "operating costs," which is inclusive of employee salaries. It should be a given that nobody works for free.
Sure. What percentage of income should be dedicated to operating cost? Do you have a figure in mind? Because to me the salaries should be the absolute bare minimum - non-profits present themselves as organisations that exist for the benefit of the public, not self-enrichment. A non-profit should operate out of a shed, not a beautiful office covered in marble. If non-profits were fully transparent with just how much money never actually gets spent on the needy and is used to buy yachts instead, I have a feeling people would donate less and volunteer more.
 

Xzi

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Because to me the salaries should be the absolute bare minimum
Big shocker coming from a libertarian, lol. You pay people minimum wage and you get minimum effort in return, which is not what most nonprofits are looking for in their staff.

If non-profits were fully transparent in just how much money never actually gets spent on the needy and is used to buy yachts instead, I have a feeling they would donate less and volunteer more.
Time is a resource even scarcer than money for many in the US, especially those working multiple jobs already. Bad enough we have to rely on nonprofits at all for stuff like feeding the homeless, when there's an insane amount of pork which could be cut out of corporate handouts and the military budget on the federal level. In most European countries, it'd be considered a failure of government in one of its most basic duties to the citizenry.
 
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