Hacking Atmosphere-NX - Custom Firmware in development by SciresM

ZachyCatGames

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Nintendo scene uses the term CFW wrong because they want a CFW even when it's not possible, so they lie.
I’m fairly sure I’ve said this before, but atmosphere does, in fact, reimplement like 80% of firmware package (and that’ll be brought up to 90% in the near future), I wouldn’t say it’s in inaccurate name.
 
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smf

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I’m fairly sure I’ve said this before, but atmosphere does, in fact, reimplement like 80% of firmware package (and that’ll be brought up to 90% in the near future), I wouldn’t say it’s in inaccurate name.

As I've explained before, the difference between software and firmware is to do with how it's stored and booted & not what it does. Atmosphere is software.

When you can install it to sysnand and cold boot it by signing it or bypassing the signing (and not using a tethered exploit like fusee gelee), then it would be firmware.

Even the TX mod chip won't count as CFW.
 
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ZachyCatGames

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As I've explained before, the difference between software and firmware is to do with how it's stored and booted & not what it does. Atmosphere is software.

When you can install it to sysnand and cold boot it by signing it or bypassing the signing (and not using a tethered exploit like fusee gelee), then it would be firmware.

Even the TX mod chip won't count as CFW.
Nintendo literally officially calls package1/package2 firm in some instances, and Atmosphere replaces all of package1, as well as everything except FS and the kernel in package2. If it replaces/reimplements firm, it is a custom firmware, doesn’t matter how it’s loaded.
 
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SciresM

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As I've explained before, the difference between software and firmware is to do with how it's stored and booted & not what it does. Atmosphere is software.

When you can install it to sysnand and cold boot it by signing it or bypassing the signing (and not using a tethered exploit like fusee gelee), then it would be firmware.

Even the TX mod chip won't count as CFW.

This isn't even good gatekeeping.

There's no correct formal definition for firmware - the strictly technical one requires ROM, which precludes anything updatable. Since the common meaning of firmware is not "read only software", updatable storage is not precluded. If we accept updatable storage, there's no reason to preclude the SD card.

Further, I would contend that Nintendo's boot packages are all firmware, despite the fact that three of four are not installed or run at any given time. Similarly, I would consider system data archives part of the firmware - they are not booted at all, and can (with system save data editing and some LR calls) be placed on the SD card.

Wikipedia puts it best, imo: "Over time, popular usage extended the word "firmware" to denote any computer program that is tightly linked to hardware".

Firmware is software that is tightly coupled to hardware. Gatekeeping the word doesn't help anyone, especially when the way you're gatekeeping it isn't even formally correct.
 

smf

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Gatekeeping the word doesn't help anyone, especially when the way you're gatekeeping it isn't even formally correct.

I accept it's a little grey, but you pretending it's CFW because you are desperate for props for creating CFW as it's the hot ticket in any scene isn't helping anyone either. By your definition Windows and Linux would be firmware. Your argument is rather disingenuous. Nothing about running atmosphere using fusee gellee can be accurately described as firmware. Just because whoever wrote the wikipedia article didn't define the meaning of firmware very well, doesn't mean that you can pretend there is no meaning.

Where does it stop? You pretend words like cold boot and permanent mean something different next? That's much easier than actually getting a permanent coldboot. CFW means permanent coldboot exploit in every other scene. Words not meaning what

Nintendo themselves call it System Software, not firmware. So saying applying run time patches to the system software somehow becomes CFW is an even bigger stretch.

If it replaces/reimplements firm, it is a custom firmware, doesn’t matter how it’s loaded.

Firmware very much matters how and when it's loaded, that is the only real difference between firmware and software.

When you can install custom package1 and package2 and it boots without any other hardware then you can honestly call it CFW
 
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ghjfdtg

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Linux is not firmware. It's a kernel designed to run on many different devices and Windows is an OS. The only part of Linux you probably can count as firmware is the device tree because it's highly customized for a device. Horizon OS is highly customized for the Switch hardware and would need much more modifications to run on different devices than Linux would.
 

_hexkyz_

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I accept it's a little grey, but you pretending it's CFW because you are desperate for props for creating CFW as it's the hot ticket in any scene isn't helping anyone either.

For someone arguing about facts, that's an extremely vitriolic and biased claim. I would like to know when anyone claimed Atmosphère meets the formal definition of "custom firmware" for "props".

Nothing about running atmosphere using fusee gellee can be accurately described as firmware.

NVIDIA do considers the code running on BPMP to be "firmware", regardless of the boot media (which can in fact be the USB for example). That same code is entirely re-implemented on Atmosphère as well.

I believe this user's post is a good approximation to the term "firmware":
https://superuser.com/a/1482086

It also acknowledges how different development environments interpret the word differently and how there is no clear definition of "firmware".

CFW means permanent coldboot exploit in every other scene.

That's not true. "CFW" has been used to describe exploit chains in other scenes that resulted in content being streamed off of other media (SD) than the original boot media (NAND). Even if the term has been used incorrectly, people didn't assume it meant "coldboot".

When you can install custom package1 and package2 and it boots without any other hardware then you can honestly call it CFW

I couldn't find any formal references to "custom firmware" meaning this either.
 

Excalibur007

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I'd like to get some clarification about Atmosphere and the gamecart slot firmware update in 9.0+ firmware.

I'm currently still on 8.1.0 with fuses burned for 4.1.0. I've been putting off updating to 9 until I feel I have a good way of achieving my objective without updating the gamecart firmware.

The firmware 9.0 was released right after I bought some games that required downloads, like Spyro, Resident Evil Trilogy, and some others. I want to redeem the codes for the content I purchased, but I obviously can't do it without updating to the latest firmware. I don't want my cart slot updated since I want to preserve the ability to go back to 4.1.0 at some point. I understand that Atmosphere prevents the gamecart slot from being updated by default, but I've read some ppl posting that if you use ChoiDujourNX to install the firmware, your gamecart slot will get updated. If running ChoiDujourNX within Atmosphere, wouldn't the slot be protected from being updated? I just want to clarify this, since some people post inaccurate info.

Also, I'd like some thoughts on this path forward:
So far, I've run stock firmware, but have booted Atmosphere a couple of times for firmware updates with ChoiDujourNX (updated that way to the 7.x firmware and later to the 8.1.0 firmware I'm on now). I have gone online many times in stock firmware to download game updates and redeem some download codes that came with physical carts. I've never installed any homebrew (besides the ChoiDujourNX) or pirated software and I've not been banned.

- I'm thinking I'll boot Atmosphere to update to 9.1.0 with ChoiDujourNX (or should I just let it download the update from within Atmosphere?).
- After updating the firmware, use Atmosphere to prevent my cart slot from being updated and go online to redeem the codes for games I've purchased and download a bunch of game updates.
- Once I've finished with downloads & updates, go offline and return to 8.1.0 with ChoiDujourNX.
- Not go online again, but when I eventually need more game updates, update the firmware back to the latest first.
- Accept that at some point I might be banned, but hopefully I'll at least have the content I've purchased first.

Is this a bad idea? Is there a better way forward for me to (hopefully) not get banned, but redeem what I've purchased, while preserving the ability to downgrade in the future?

Still looking for an answer to these questions:
- Does updating with ChoidujourNX after booting into Atmosphere update the cart slot, or is it still protected from the boot to Atmosphere?
- Is the above plan for getting my game updates and redeeming download content a bad idea? Is there a better way?
 

Muxi

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Which settings have to be changed so that the cheats in the atmosphere/contents folder are not automatically activated? Under ATM 0.9.4 this was still possible with this entry:

dmnt_cheats_enabled_by_default = u8!0x0

However, this does not work under ATM 0.10.1 anymore. I've already removed this character ";" from the corresponding line of system_settings.ini and changed the entry as shown above, but it doesn't seem to work.
 
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SciresM

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Which settings have to be changed so that the cheats in the atmosphere/contents folder are not automatically activated? Under ATM 0.9.4 this was still possible with this entry:

dmnt_cheats_enabled_by_default = u8!0x0

However, this does not work under ATM 0.10.1 anymore. I've already removed this character ";" from the corresponding line of system_settings.ini and changed the entry as shown above, but it doesn't seem to work.

Config was moved to /atmosphere/config in 0.10.0, per the changelog.
 

smf

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For someone arguing about facts, that's an extremely vitriolic and biased claim. I would like to know when anyone claimed Atmosphère meets the formal definition of "custom firmware" for "props".

Other than the post where I claimed it?

It's a biased claim that Atmosphere is CFW, none of the supporting arguments holds any water. If you look back to the scene where the CFW term started, then it's clear that Atmosphere doesn't meet the definition.

That's not true. "CFW" has been used to describe exploit chains in other scenes that resulted in content being streamed off of other media (SD) than the original boot media (NAND). Even if the term has been used incorrectly, people didn't assume it meant "coldboot".

The Nintendo scene has been really lax with naming, they saw the term CFW used in other scenes and wanted a piece of it. It's an echo chamber that just keeps going.

Xbox scene only used CFW to describe hacked firmware you flash to your drive, ps3 & vita scene differentiates between cfw & jailbreak.

https://enso.henkaku.xyz/

Custom firmware for PS Vita
HENkaku Ensō is the evolution of the HENkaku jailbreak that opened the PS Vita and PSTV to a new universe of customization and user created content. Install it once and your Vita will be permanently hacked--no need to apply it after each reboot.
 
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_hexkyz_

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Other than the post where I claimed it?

Naturally. The point being that you can't know if a developer is misusing the term "CFW" on purpose.

Xbox scene only used CFW to describe hacked firmware you flash to your drive, ps3 & vita scene differentiates between cfw & jailbreak.

But the term "jailbreak" suffered from the exact same issue. Early on those scenes people had exhaustive debates with compelling arguments on both sides on whether "jailbreak" could/should be applicable to video game consoles since it originated and was heavily tied to the iOS scene. As a result, for a good time it was generally frowned upon the usage of "jailbreak" in console scenes.
People began accepting it widely due to media coverage and the more niche circles began accepting it after developers from the iOS scene started using it more and more in console scenes (e.g.: PS4).

Terms like "CFW" and "jailbreak" simply don't have a well defined meaning. "Firmware" is a bit more rigorous but even then there's debate on it, so it all boils down to how you derive "custom firmware" from "firmware" and taking that into account both opinions are equally valid.
 
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smf

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Naturally. The point being that you can't know if a developer is misusing the term "CFW" on purpose.

Occam's razor.

Terms like "CFW" and "jailbreak" simply don't have a well defined meaning.

I disagree, but if that is what you think then why choose to use CFW at all then? If not just because it sounds better? Words are only helpful if they convey meaning.

Why not something like Altered System Software?
 
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