Atlantic: US now failed state

[Xzi]

The ultimate point though is that the numbers don't hold up to observation, and if they only turn out to vote in presidential elections how do you even know that they hold that specific set of beliefs? You can't know it.

Sure you can, all you have to do is look at Republican polling on various issues, specifically issues which the alt-right obsess over (mostly immigration). Like I said previously, however, it has become harder to actually separate the alt-right from the rest of the party, because it's no longer a party with a single set of cohesive values. It's all jumbled up into a big mass of hateful nonsense since all the moderate Republicans were driven out, so I find it easier to simply call it Trumpism. Far more all-encompassing.

 

[FGFlann]

That's very dishonest framing. This simply sets yourself the expectation that anyone that has a concern over immigration is an ethno-nationalist. You couldn't get more hyper partisan framing if you tried.

I find the opposite is actually true when it comes to party cohesion, republicans are very unified with a common set of values and principles. There will always be differences but it's not a split party at all, not by a long shot.

 

[Xzi]

That's very dishonest framing. This simply sets yourself the expectation that anyone that has a concern over immigration is an ethno-nationalist.

I'm not talking about "concerns," I'm talking about support for a white ethnostate, or short of that, blanket support for deportation of non-whites. These things poll a lot higher than you'd expect among Trump supporters. Or maybe exactly as high as you'd expect, depending on how little faith in humanity you have left. The Southern Strategy has certainly left its mark over the decades.

There will always be differences but it's not a split party at all, not by a long shot.

Oh I didn't say they were split, but the fact that Republicans are always so willing to fall in line is not necessarily a good thing. Right now they're more like lemmings slowly marching the entire country in a single-file line toward a cliff.

 

[FGFlann]

I'm not talking about "concerns," I'm talking about support for a white ethnostate, or short of that, blanket support for deportation of non-whites. These things poll a lot higher than you'd expect among Trump supporters. Or maybe exactly as high as you'd expect, depending on how little faith in humanity you have left.


Oh I didn't say they were split, but the fact that Republicans are always so willing to fall in line is not necessarily a good thing. Right now they're more like lemmings slowly marching the entire country in a single-file line toward a cliff.

Serious question, are you messing with me? I know that you know there has never been a poll of republicans with a question of "do you support the creation of a white ethno-state?" ¬_¬

 

[Xzi]

Serious question, are you messing with me? I know that you know there has never been a poll of republicans with a question of "do you support the creation of a white ethno-state?" ¬_¬

Not in those exact terms, no.

Only six percent of respondents said they strongly or somewhat supported the alt-right, while eight percent said the same of white nationalism and just four percent of neo-Nazism. In the case of the alt-right and white nationalism, a staggering one-fifth said they neither support nor oppose the groups.

About 70 percent of respondents strongly agreed that people of different races should be "free to live wherever they choose" and that "all races are equal," and 89 percent agreed that all races should be treated equally. At the same time, 31 percent of respondents said they strongly or somewhat agreed that the country needs to "protect and preserve its White European heritage," while 34 percent strongly or somewhat disagreed and 29 percent said they neither agreed nor disagreed.

The poll also revealed disparities in which groups Americans believe are "under attack." More than a third—39 percent—of respondents strongly or somewhat agreed with the statement that "white people are currently under attack in this country."

https://www.newsweek.com/many-ameri...ite-nationalists-they-think-poll-finds-666228

It's really easy to radicalize people with a victim complex. Also worth noting the poll is a couple years out of date, but it's the most recent relevant one I could find on short notice.

 

[FGFlann]

The study does not break down the responses by political party, and is actually weighted toward democrats. It also does not convey the respondents understanding of the questions or terms involved. In any case, the statistics are overwhelmingly against fringe ideologies of all stripes. Except BLM apparently, but that doesn't surprise me.

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/cr...017-Reuters-UVA-Ipsos-Race-Poll-9-11-2017.pdf

 

[Xzi]

View attachment 209567

Pretty dang close to the same results, only difference is that doesn't include questions about "protecting and preserving white European heritage," or which groups people believe are "under attack."

Still, if we're looking at this as representative of the larger population, support for the alt-right is higher than my previous guess of 5%, and that's without accounting for the other groups which essentially fall under the same umbrella. A total of 18% support between the alt-right, white nationalism, and neo-nazism is fairly disturbing. Assuming all of them are voters, they definitely hold quite a bit of power over the Republican party.

 

[FGFlann]

(It's the same poll, question is on page 2.)

Lol, it's basically bunk. You shouldn't panic over it.

There's a much more thorough questionnaire which was done more recently by Reuters.

https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/mkt/12/4809/4766/Topline Reuters Race Poll.pdf

Breakdowns along party lines, too. There are some quite hilarious questions which demonstrate all the stereotypes you can imagine.
("America will be better off with whites as the minority" 12% democrat approval. Thanks, dems. )

But the takeaway from it is that basically nobody really cares about these dumb race based ideologies. Whether it's democrats or republicans the response on average is that people are egalitarian.

 

[Xzi]

Lol, it's basically bunk. You shouldn't panic over it.

I'm not panicking over it, but I'm also not particularly shocked by it. We haven't come nearly as far as we'd like to believe we have in the last 100 years, and quite a bit of institutional racism/classism continues to linger. All you have to do is look at the Ahmaud Arbery and Breonna Taylor cases for examples.

 

[Hanafuda]

Four More Years!

 

[Xzi]

Four More Years!

If Trump isn't lying about personally taking hydroxychloroquine, you'll be lucky to get four more days out of his already-struggling heart. Then again, whenever you're starting with the assumption that Trump is telling the truth about something, there's a 99.9% chance you're on the wrong track.

 

[Hanafuda]

If Trump isn't lying about personally taking hydroxychloroquine, you'll be lucky to get four more days out of his already-struggling heart. Then again, whenever you're starting with the assumption that Trump is telling the truth about something, there's a 99.9% chance you're on the wrong track.

Four More Years!

TBH, neither of the candidates have better than 60/40 odds at another 4 years. And while Biden might live that long, his mental faculties are already pulling out of the station. So I'm looking at the VP slots and that freaks me the fuck out. I don't have a problem with DJT as a frontman (let's face it, POTUS is really just a magazine cover), but Mike Pence? That ain't my flavor. But neither is Stacey Abrams or Kamala Harris or whatever other female dem prospect Biden is somewhat compelled to choose. They're all too far off center, one way or the other, for me.

 

[Xzi]

TBH, neither of the candidates have better than 60/40 odds at another 4 years. And while Biden might live that long, his mental faculties are already pulling out of the station. So I'm looking at the VP slots and that freaks me the fuck out.

Oh no doubt, it's dementia Joe vs brain damaged Donald. It was always going to come down to these two though, the only thing we have left is the illusion of choice.

let's face it, POTUS is really just a magazine cover

Typically yeah, but there's nobody left in the Republican party willing to suppress Trump's worst instincts. Even just giving him a funny look results in banishment. At the very least we'd have progressives carefully watching and criticizing everything Biden does in office.

Mike Pence? That ain't my flavor. But neither is Stacey Abrams or Kamala Harris or whatever other female dem prospect Biden is somewhat compelled to choose. They're all too far off center, one way or the other, for me.

Kamala Harris is pretty damn centrist on most issues, if not center-right. At the same time I feel like she'd be a bad pick, since Biden already occupies that same lane and you typically want a VP that makes up for your weaknesses. Stacy Abrams I'd be happier with, but she's just starting to establish herself and is still relatively unknown.

 

[weatMod]

This is currently making headlines around the world:


We Are Living in a Failed State
The coronavirus didn’t break America. It revealed what was already broken.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/underlying-conditions/610261/

The President Is Winning His War on American Institutions
How Trump is destroying the civil service and bending the government to his will
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/04/how-to-destroy-a-government/606793/

Its important, because its in the Atlantic. (Its part of the 'intellectual elite' reflecting on this.)

not exactly the punctuation i would put around The Atlantic