Artificial brains and mind uploading

[Cyan]

The brain is not working in a close environment and being only the consciousness, it's also regulating the hormones and blood flow and heart rate (to change the brain oxygenation in different situations), doing a lot of work you don't think about (walking, breathing, organ's functions, etc.)
copying a full brain shouldn't be only the memories but also all that body mechanics.
and without being attached to the same body (if only virtual, or put back in a different body) how would it interact with unknown or missing body parts? I'm sure nobody perceive the world the same way (colors, odors, sounds, etc.)
There's probably a lot of way to "code" something similar, just talking about the colors what I learn being blue is not the same tone you learned being blue. so you can't code a specific tone as blue and tell that's what it should be for everyone.

I don't know where I'm going with all this. I will continue reading the first page instead

 

[Deleted-379826]

Not trying to start religion wars or anything but I'm Christian and believe in God Jesus bible etc although I very much find this interesting although let's say you did believe what if your actual body died but you were uploaded what would happen. Or let's say God chooses when you die there's always a period when you ascend what would then happen ? There's so many things to Thi k about especially from a religious view on top of that and stated above if you were cloned would a spirit from your mind transfer over or something like that. It really is interesting and something to question

 

[KingVamp]

I am just tired of all the latest social justice garbage. And I dont mean to open up a new can of worms and stuff. I have no problem with gays, cis whatever, trans, all that stuff, but I am just basically tired of hearing about it. So I am not ready to hear about people starting rights campaigns for sentient AI or whatever. And besides, I feel like the second we get a sentient AI, we are going to have massive problems, unrelated to rights of any kind.

Sentient AI lives matter!




I keep reading this "it will be a clone you, not you thing" , but we are talking about the future. They could very well literally transfer mind and/or soul without any clones involved whatsoever. Plus, the ability to read someone mind and the ability to transfer a mind doesn't necessarily have to be the same.

Once uploaded, you could be both active in the digital and physical world at the same time and more than one place at a time.

I think hacking a conscious should be considered attempt murder regardless of intent. If conscious hacking would even be possible. That's different than hacking memories which should also be illegal.

Would brain scans to detect a lie even matter, when you or someone can modify your own memories?

Also, oh boy. Talk about cosmetic surgery and cosplay. People already trying to match their idols. Would it be illegal to look exactly as another person, digitally or physically? You say more diversity. You are right, because people bodies will be more like costumes at point. Fursuits? Furbodies. It can go the other way too. With people trying to be like someone else. Ids with have to be more specialized and protected.

Honestly, this you have to work to get money isn't going to hold at that point. Since most things will be done by robots.

 

[Yil]

As long as it emulates everything an organic brain can do, I don't see a problem. You'd have to make sure to emulate everything a human brain experiences, including those chemical reactions that cause us to feel and sometimes make foolish choices.

Dreams are not emulation. Brains only run at 20 hz and dreams are definitely faster. Dreams may very well be reality no less complex than ours.

 

[FAST6191]

The brain is not working in a close environment and being only the consciousness, it's also regulating the hormones and blood flow and heart rate (to change the brain oxygenation in different situations), doing a lot of work you don't think about (walking, breathing, organ's functions, etc.)
copying a full brain shouldn't be only the memories but also all that body mechanics.
and without being attached to the same body (if only virtual, or put back in a different body) how would it interact with unknown or missing body parts? I'm sure nobody perceive the world the same way (colors, odors, sounds, etc.)
There's probably a lot of way to "code" something similar, just talking about the colors what I learn being blue is not the same tone you learned being blue. so you can't code a specific tone as blue and tell that's what it should be for everyone.

I don't know where I'm going with all this. I will continue reading the first page instead

We did cover that lightly earlier, though I agree that as much as I like to view the rest of the body as energy storage/generation, sensors and transportation it does go both ways.

Anyway this could pose an issue, step one here would probably be to see what happens to people that become fully paralysed. The first stuff to come up would probably be phantom limbs and related things if you go looking, however that is pretty boring so I would want to go deeper.

I imagine in the end though we could probably make a dummy load equivalent -- if I am designing a power supply for something or a gear system however complex the load is in the end I write it off as a resistance/impedance or drain/source of torque.

Choice video on "my blue", also when you said tone I thought music and thus synaesthesia

 

[CIAwesome526]

Tlr but the wall of text looks profound from a dinstance. I wished I wanted to read that because I'm very interested in this stuff and I'm sure you have some very good views and thoughts on the subject.

 

[mashers]

The brain is not working in a close environment and being only the consciousness, it's also regulating the hormones and blood flow and heart rate (to change the brain oxygenation in different situations), doing a lot of work you don't think about (walking, breathing, organ's functions, etc.)
copying a full brain shouldn't be only the memories but also all that body mechanics.

Those things can be simulated if necessary, so the artificial brain believes it is regulating those things.

and without being attached to the same body (if only virtual, or put back in a different body) how would it interact with unknown or missing body parts? I'm sure nobody perceive the world the same way (colors, odors, sounds, etc.)

Again, that can be emulated. But it would be interesting to know how a mind would react if it was detached from its body.

There's probably a lot of way to "code" something similar, just talking about the colors what I learn being blue is not the same tone you learned being blue. so you can't code a specific tone as blue and tell that's what it should be for everyone.

Another interesting point! The simulation would probably need to be calibrated for each individual so that their experience matched the sensory input they recognise from their biological existence.

Not trying to start religion wars or anything but I'm Christian and believe in God Jesus bible etc although I very much find this interesting although let's say you did believe what if your actual body died but you were uploaded what would happen.

This has been touched upon already, and the answer is that simply do not know. I assume a person who believes that humans are spiritual beings would argue that what we are discussing is impossible (because the artificial mind would have no spirit attached to it and hence would not be 'alive'). This is not my belief, but I still think it is relevant to this discussion as it's likely to be a topic which would arise should this technology actually exist.

Or let's say God chooses when you die there's always a period when you ascend what would then happen ?

Well, assuming the spirit existed and was transferred to the artificial mind, I would guess that it would 'ascend' when the artificial brain 'dies' and the spirit detaches from it. As I've said previously, I believe that at this point in time the consciousness would simply cease to exist.

Once uploaded, you could be both active in the digital and physical world at the same time and more than one place at a time.

That's interesting. The capability for multitasking could enable the same mind to do more than one thing at a time, in more than one 'place'. (makes my brain hurt to think about that. I can't even have a conversation unless there is silence in the room...)

Also, oh boy. Talk about cosmetic surgery and cosplay. People already trying to match their idols. Would it be illegal to look exactly as another person, digitally or physically? You say more diversity. You are right, because people bodies will be more like costumes at point. Fursuits? Furbodies. It can go the other way too. With people trying to be like someone else. Ids with have to be more specialized and protected.

Yeah the possibilities for spoofing as another person are huge. But maybe everyone will have a UUID and that is used to check who you are

 

[gamesquest1]

Well in regards to the whole "how co

 

[Bedel]

The brain is not working in a close environment and being only the consciousness, it's also regulating the hormones and blood flow and heart rate (to change the brain oxygenation in different situations), doing a lot of work you don't think about (walking, breathing, organ's functions, etc.)
copying a full brain shouldn't be only the memories but also all that body mechanics.
and without being attached to the same body (if only virtual, or put back in a different body) how would it interact with unknown or missing body parts? I'm sure nobody perceive the world the same way (colors, odors, sounds, etc.)
There's probably a lot of way to "code" something similar, just talking about the colors what I learn being blue is not the same tone you learned being blue. so you can't code a specific tone as blue and tell that's what it should be for everyone.

I don't know where I'm going with all this. I will continue reading the first page instead

Well tonight I thought abaut this and maybe the first you said may be not a problem. I mean it's not diferent from an OS, and there exist VM for them to work. Just programming a VM should work, or even an artificial body too.
But what really bothers me is a brain is still not in binary. This may sound stupid, but, how could we "adapt" something that's not computable to an all binary enviroment?

Also I don't think we should talk about a "spirit" or somethin like that. This is science, not religion. I don't mean you have to belive in god or not, but please, take all of religion stuff apart.

 

[mashers]

Well tonight I thought abaut this and maybe the first you said may be not a problem. I mean it's not diferent from an OS, and there exist VM for them to work. Just programming a VM should work, or even an artificial body too.
But what really bothers me is a brain is still not in binary. This may sound stupid, but, how could we "adapt" something that's not computable to an all binary enviroment?

I agree, the Virtual Machine analogy doesn't really work. VMs take a computer and make it run another computer within it. It works because the systems are alike in a fundamental way. But brains and computers are different in a very fundamental way (one is organic, the other is not).

Also I don't think we should talk about a "spirit" or somethin like that. This is science, not religion. I don't mean you have to belive in god or not, but please, take all of religion stuff apart.

Although I agree with your opinion, I also think that for those who do hold spiritual beliefs, the spiritual aspect cannot be separated from the scientific. So I do think it's relevant to this discussion as long as in a measured way.

 

[Bedel]

I agree, the Virtual Machine analogy doesn't really work. VMs take a computer and make it run another computer within it. It works because the systems are alike in a fundamental way. But brains and computers are different in a very fundamental way (one is organic, the other is not).


Although I agree with your opinion, I also think that for those who do hold spiritual beliefs, the spiritual aspect cannot be separated from the scientific. So I do think it's relevant to this discussion as long as in a measured way.

Yes this is what I mean. Maybe a graphene base could be more stable for a brain (I mean it's carbon, the main element that form organic stuff), and also it has the conexions a brain should need to exist, so that should solve so much problems. Still we have what you say: how to make it "operative"?
Also, here we have a problem. In the case much people do this, then, what if the data get corrupted? It's not strange, and sometimes we colapse because of psycology stuff (I'm not an expert but it happens, like when someone faints because of being afraid or sad) and I wonder what will be the result of this being a copy in a PC...

 

[mashers]

Yes this is what I mean. Maybe a graphene base could be more stable for a brain (I mean it's carbon, the main element that form organic stuff), and also it has the conexions a brain should need to exist, so that should solve so much problems.

Well, using graphene transistors would allow increased density in the semiconductors. If I understand correctly, carbon-based life-forms are so called because of the way the carbon bonds with other elements. I'm not sure 'life' could still be applied to a circuit made up of carbon.

Still we have what you say: how to make it "operative"?

Mind-uploading theorists would argue that it would be operative because of its structure and complexity. So once you apply power to the system, it would begin processing information. Remember that brains aren't really like computers in the respect that computers need hardware (the transistors etc) and software (the OS and apps). In a brain, the hardware (the neurones) is the software; the way they operate is a function of the synaptic links between them, and this can be reproduced.

Also, here we have a problem. In the case much people do this, then, what if the data get corrupted? It's not strange, and sometimes we colapse because of psycology stuff (I'm not an expert but it happens, like when someone faints because of being afraid or sad) and I wonder what will be the result of this being a copy in a PC...

In a human brain, the possibilities for corruption are disastrous, and permanent. Brain injury from trauma or stroke, invasion by carcinoma or infection, or degeneration due to age or disease all cause corruption of the brain tissue and therefore alteration of its function. In digital form the same things could be possible. However, in digital form we have the possibility of building in redundancy. Checksums, RAID-like storage and backups could all be used to counter any possible corruption. Also, a biological brain is a single organ which is interdependent. A digital brain could be modular, with each module communicating with the others but able to function somewhat independently. Corruption of one module need not, therefore, have disastrous consequences for the others. For example, a sensory cortex module could be responsible for interpreting simulated sensory stimuli; if it becomes corrupt, it can be restored from a backup without affecting other modules such as memory, cognition, language etc.

 

[Bedel]

Well, using graphene transistors would allow increased density in the semiconductors. If I understand correctly, carbon-based life-forms are so called because of the way the carbon bonds with other elements. I'm not sure 'life' could still be applied to a circuit made up of carbon.


Mind-uploading theorists would argue that it would be operative because of its structure and complexity. So once you apply power to the system, it would begin processing information. Remember that brains aren't really like computers in the respect that computers need hardware (the transistors etc) and software (the OS and apps). In a brain, the hardware (the neurones) is the software; the way they operate is a function of the synaptic links between them, and this can be reproduced.


In a human brain, the possibilities for corruption are disastrous, and permanent. Brain injury from trauma or stroke, invasion by carcinoma or infection, or degeneration due to age or disease all cause corruption of the brain tissue and therefore alteration of its function. In digital form the same things could be possible. However, in digital form we have the possibility of building in redundancy. Checksums, RAID-like storage and backups could all be used to counter any possible corruption. Also, a biological brain is a single organ which is interdependent. A digital brain could be modular, with each module communicating with the others but able to function somewhat independently. Corruption of one module need not, therefore, have disastrous consequences for the others. For example, a sensory cortex module could be responsible for interpreting simulated sensory stimuli; if it becomes corrupt, it can be restored from a backup without affecting other modules such as memory, cognition, language etc.

Well yes, but what you're planning is more a perfect IA than a copy from a human. Something that can improve forever and never die (if it have enough copys of himself, maybe by the internet) and can never leave to a error (the same time it's a machine wich not fail to caulate somethin, it's a human that can understand paradox and else).
I don't know, maybe it's only my point of view, but I think this new you will not longer be you, but another version. Maybe at this pont is when you go and use your 4th point in the main post...

 

[mashers]

Well yes, but what you're planning is more a perfect IA than a copy from a human.

No, I'm talking about creating an artificial brain and uploading a human mind into it.

Something that can improve forever and never die (if it have enough copys of himself, maybe by the internet) and can never leave to a error (the same time it's a machine wich not fail to caulate somethin, it's a human that can understand paradox and else).

The possibilities for ongoing improvement are endless

I don't know, maybe it's only my point of view, but I think this new you will not longer be you, but another version. Maybe at this pont is when you go and use your 4th point in the main post...

For me, this relates more closely to point 1 in my original post. Although I would prefer for the artificial brain to contain an uninterrupted version of my consciousness, so I literally wake up the same person within the digital environment, I don't think this is what would happen. So I would want my biological life to be coming to an end already, and then I would know that a new version of myself would live on in the digital environment.

 

[Bedel]

No, I'm talking about creating an artificial brain and uploading a human mind into it.


The possibilities for ongoing improvement are endless


For me, this relates more closely to point 1 in my original post. Although I would prefer for the artificial brain to contain an uninterrupted version of my consciousness, so I literally wake up the same person within the digital environment, I don't think this is what would happen. So I would want my biological life to be coming to an end already, and then I would know that a new version of myself would live on in the digital environment.

Well maybe you have a point, but I'm not that sure I'd like myself to be... How to say it? Infinite?

 

[mashers]

Well maybe you have a point, but I'm not that sure I'd like myself to be... How to say it? Infinite?

Hence point 4

 

[Jonna]

Ever heard of/played SOMA? It relates to a good chunk of the concepts you've brought up, and was very enjoyable.
Also neat post, enjoyed reading it.

@mashers I would also like to +1 the opinion that you should play SOMA. Right up this alley.

 

[mashers]

@8BitWonder @Jonna
Ooooh, Mac version on Steam DOWNLOADING NAUWWW!!!

 

[FAST6191]

On biological vs binary then emulation is quite possible, indeed doing it at a crazy low level was one of what I consider one of the greatest advancements in science in recent years. It just has a lot of overhead, as emulation is wont to do.

Ooooh, Mac version on Steam DOWNLOADING NAUWWW!!!

Oh I had no idea you were one of those unholy disgusting mac users.

To think we had one of those semi intellectual discussions.

 

[mashers]

Oh I had no idea you were one of those unholy disgusting mac users.

To think we had one of those semi intellectual discussions.

Hey, if my mind is being uploaded to anything it had better be running OS X and have a fucking beautiful case designed by Jony Ive.