Are we ever going to get a real 512gb MicroSD card? (And no that Microdia one doesn't exsist)

Discussion in 'Switch - Console, Accessories and Hardware' started by Futurdreamz, Apr 1, 2017.

  1. Futurdreamz
    OP

    Futurdreamz GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    1,656
    918
    Jun 15, 2014
    Canada
    For a long time now the largest size available has been 256GB, and nobody has even announced a larger capacity (the Microdia one doesn't count. it was announced and was supposed to launch two years ago then the company shut up about it).

    And I think that the 200GB size, and the prices are pretty telling.
    Going off Amazon.com:
    256GB: $150
    200GB: $80
    128GB: $45

    Why 200GB? SD cards have always been multiples of 2 (4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, etc) but then they come out with this one size that's 25% short of a standard multiple? I'm beginning to worry that we may have hit a fabrication limit where about 200gb is the maximum that you can realistically fit on a MicroSD card, and 256gb is a painful stretch. I think we may never see a real 512GB MicroSD Card - which is going to suck when our collection starts to balloon.
     


  2. PabloMK7

    PabloMK7 Red Yoshi! ^ω^

    Member
    1,763
    1,038
    Feb 21, 2014
    Spain
    Yoshi's Island
    They are not multiples of 2, but powers of 2. They are that size because how storage media works. The reason of the 25% shortage is because flash chips lose their ability to store data over time, the biggest the capacity is, the worst. It can be space allocated for other uses aswell.
     
  3. Xzi

    Xzi Console Hacker and PC Gamer

    Member
    3,066
    1,888
    Dec 26, 2013
    United States
    Spiraling Out
    Yeah, it'll happen, it can already be done from a manufacturing standpoint. I think the bigger issue is lack of demand for a microSD that costs more than $150, but prices always shrink eventually too.
     
    CheatFreak47 likes this.
  4. Mr. Wizard

    Mr. Wizard Ending the spread of bullshit one thread at a time

    Member
    1,112
    425
    Mar 20, 2015
    Canada
    10th Dimension
    It's in multiples of 2 because of Moore's law and the theoretical limit of MicroSDXC is 2TB, which is why SDXC readers say they can support it even though no cards exist yet.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Also, they just announced a 1TB SDXC so the 512GB MicroSDXC shouldn't be far behind it. It's simple physics.

    https://www.sandisk.com/about/media...otype-of-the-worlds-first-1terabyte-SDXC-card
     
  5. Pleng

    Pleng GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    1,676
    834
    Sep 14, 2011
    Thailand
    Just imagine the capacities we could be seeing if we'd stuck with miniSD
     
  6. Mr. Wizard

    Mr. Wizard Ending the spread of bullshit one thread at a time

    Member
    1,112
    425
    Mar 20, 2015
    Canada
    10th Dimension
    And with the push of 3D and holographic memory I wouldn't be surprised if some of that technology trickles down into to portable market/sector in the next 5 or so years.

    http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/intel-optane-technology.html

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    LOL I hope you are being sarcastic, it's tough to tell sometimes on here... btw, nice block of butter, I can't for the life of me find a butter tray that will fit a 1 lb block of butter.
     
  7. Pleng

    Pleng GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    1,676
    834
    Sep 14, 2011
    Thailand
    MiniSD is, what... About three times the physical size of micro. You're going to be able to fit more materials if you have more physical space. That's why we get large capacity SD cards before microSD

    I can't remember why I changed my avatar to butter, it was so long ago. I was thinking of making an EOF thread to see if anyone remembered (it was definitely in reaction to something or someone on here) but then I realised I didn't really care that much.
     
    hobbledehoy899 likes this.
  8. Mr. Wizard

    Mr. Wizard Ending the spread of bullshit one thread at a time

    Member
    1,112
    425
    Mar 20, 2015
    Canada
    10th Dimension
    You know MiniSD had the same theoretical limit of MicroSD and that MicroSD replaced MiniSD with new miniaturization techniques at the time right? And that they were both by the same company right?

    Hahaha! Nice try, almost had me triggered...
     
  9. Futurdreamz
    OP

    Futurdreamz GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    1,656
    918
    Jun 15, 2014
    Canada
    That is only prototype, and it was announced six months ago. And a SD card is 4x the size of a MicroSD, so it has the same density as the 256gb chip
     
  10. Pleng

    Pleng GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    1,676
    834
    Sep 14, 2011
    Thailand
    I'm not taking about theoretical limits. I'm talking about physical limitations we have as of now. SD and micro SD have the same theoretical limits but SD gets the bigger sizes first because it's easier to package higher capacities into larger physical spaces. It's not rocket science
     
  11. Mr. Wizard

    Mr. Wizard Ending the spread of bullshit one thread at a time

    Member
    1,112
    425
    Mar 20, 2015
    Canada
    10th Dimension
    What's your point? Of course they have to start with a prototype lol. You seem to be assuming that an SD is just made up of a chip the same size as the one in a MicroSD card, they use bigger or multiple chips. They are not more "dense", they just have more surface area.

    Also the 256GB MicroSD only came out 10 months ago, it will be several more months before we see a prototype 512GB and probably several more before we see a consumer card, according to Moore's Law.
     
    Last edited by Mr. Wizard, Apr 2, 2017
  12. Futurdreamz
    OP

    Futurdreamz GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    1,656
    918
    Jun 15, 2014
    Canada
    My point is that it is a prototype, and not a shipping product. You can find prototype of all sorts of things of varying levels of technical possibility and likelyhood of actual manufacture. Hell, there's the 512GB MicroSD prototype i previously mentioned.



    And i do know what I'm talking about. Chips scale by area, not volume - if they did, you'd only be able to squeeze 1/10th the amount of data on a MicroSD (so a 52GB MicroSD to a 512GB SD). A SD card is 4x the area of a MicroSD card, and so the MicroSD card can only fit about 1/4th the capacity of a SD card when both are using the same density and manufacturing processes. So if the maximum possible size of a SD card is 1TB, then MicroSD cards can only go up to about 256GB
     
  13. Mr. Wizard

    Mr. Wizard Ending the spread of bullshit one thread at a time

    Member
    1,112
    425
    Mar 20, 2015
    Canada
    10th Dimension
    Wait, what the fuck are you talking about? You were talking about MiniSD, now you are talking about SD and MicroSD? Do you even know what you are talking about?
     
    Last edited by Mr. Wizard, Apr 2, 2017
  14. Futurdreamz
    OP

    Futurdreamz GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    1,656
    918
    Jun 15, 2014
    Canada
    I have never once said MiniSD. I have always said MicroSD.

    And again, comparing the area the MicroSD was already twice the density of the SD card - indicating that they announced the 1TB prototype after using the same level of technology in the 256GB MicroSD.
     
    Last edited by Futurdreamz, Apr 2, 2017
  15. Pleng

    Pleng GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    1,676
    834
    Sep 14, 2011
    Thailand
    The principal is *exactly* the same. I'm using SD as an example because MiniSD is not made any more. You even made the same argument yourself in response to someone else; more surface area means larger physical space to put the storage hardware...
     
  16. Mr. Wizard

    Mr. Wizard Ending the spread of bullshit one thread at a time

    Member
    1,112
    425
    Mar 20, 2015
    Canada
    10th Dimension
    Ok people.

    Can you see how the MicroSD chips pretty much equal HALF the size of the SD chip? The other half of an SD card is taken up by the controller which I believe also grows exponentially with the size of the NAND chip.

    Any questions?


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by Mr. Wizard, Apr 2, 2017
  17. JoostinOnline

    JoostinOnline Certified Crash Test Dummy

    Member
    10,958
    3,741
    Apr 2, 2011
    United States
    The Twilight Zone
    Moore's law is about transistors that can be fit in a die. And it died a year ago.
     
    Last edited by JoostinOnline, Apr 2, 2017
    DrkBeam, TotalInsanity4 and DarkIrata like this.
  18. CheatFreak47

    CheatFreak47 Complex Donut

    Member
    1,340
    902
    Oct 11, 2011
    United States
    Michigan, USA
    @Mr. Wizard as someone who's taken apart several broken regular SD cards, I can say that what's inside them varies greatly depending on size. @Pleng is entirely correct, if we had stuck with MiniSD instead of MicroSD, the larger size of MiniSD would mean they can fit more dies in the space, making it possible for larger size cards to be sold to the public sooner.

    For reference, here is an image from the inside of a fairly recent standard SDXC Card.
    Warning: Spoilers inside!
     
    Last edited by CheatFreak47, Apr 2, 2017
    DrkBeam, hobbledehoy899 and Pleng like this.
  19. Veho

    Veho The man who cried "Ni".

    Former Staff
    8,839
    16,710
    Apr 4, 2006
    Croatia
    Zagreb
    Are you people seriously arguing the exact same point with each other? MicroSD cards have a smaller capacity than SD cards because they are physically smaller. Now drop it or I'll lock the thread.
     
  20. Mr. Wizard

    Mr. Wizard Ending the spread of bullshit one thread at a time

    Member
    1,112
    425
    Mar 20, 2015
    Canada
    10th Dimension
    Nice pic! Using that logic though why not just go with regular SD cards then? or SSD? Hell, tack on that new Optane card to the back of the Switch yeah!

    There is a reason Secure Digital killed off the MiniSD.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    NAND chips are made up of NAND gate transistors. Moore's Law is not dead.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/01/05/ces-2017-moores-law-not-dead-says-intel-boss/

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Couldn't have said it better myself, I'm out...