anti aliasing x 2 when 3D turned off. 3D on = no anti aliasing

Discussion in '3DS - Console, Accessories and Hardware' started by lostdwarf, Sep 15, 2010.

  1. lostdwarf
    OP

    lostdwarf GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    1,071
    86
    Nov 2, 2008
    ENGLAND
    why is it not used in 3D mode? I know capcom mentioned the 3D effect does natural antialiasing anyway but would having it turned on look wrong in 3D? Or have a bad effect?
    Only turning it off for when the 3D slider is on seems odd since wouldn't it look better if they kept it on?
    Ps. I am not a tech head so i appologise for my nievety.


    source. Kotaku on capcoms recent res evil 3ds demo.
    Sorry cant link i am on my phone.
     
  2. Issac

    Issac I

    Global Moderator
    GBAtemp Patron
    Issac is a Patron of GBAtemp and is helping us stay independent!

    Our Patreon
    5,217
    2,311
    Apr 10, 2004
    Sweden
    Sweden
    Well, anti-aliasing blends the edge pixels of the object with the background. and if the popped out object has popped out parts of the background in the edges, it surely wouldn't look too good...
    This is just a guess though, but I study in this area sooo... I think it's a pretty good guess [​IMG]
     
  3. HiroshiYamauchi

    HiroshiYamauchi GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    238
    32
    Jan 30, 2008
    Brazil
    In my opinion, there's no anti-aliasing when it's in the 3D mode due to hardware limitations. When the 3D effect is on, the 3DS must render two slighty different images at the same time, which consumes processing power, but when the effect is turned off, the 3DS renderizes only one image and it make the use of anti-aliasing viable.
     
  4. pachura

    pachura GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    566
    2
    Dec 9, 2006
    It's a matter of performance. Pica200 implements the most straightforward antialiasing - FSAA - which basically boils down to rendering the whole scene twice as big and then downsampling it to the screen size. Which unfortunately doubles (quadraples ?) required fillrate.

    In 2D mode, most games will not use the full resolution of 3DS' screen (800x240), but just 400x240. Which means you cut the number of pixels to be rendered in half. Which means you gain some free fillrate which can be spent on antialiasing or other postprocessing.

    There are smarter ways to do antialiasing (e.g. instead of processing the full scene, just apply it around sharp edges when the "jaggies" are), however Pica200 does not support them out of the box. Game developers on PSP have been doing some smart tricks to achieve this, so maybe when 3DS is better explored, antialiasing will be possible also in 3D.
     
  5. lostdwarf
    OP

    lostdwarf GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    1,071
    86
    Nov 2, 2008
    ENGLAND
    Ahh i see, by pop out you mean in 3D mode? This makes a lot of sense as the blended jaggy and background would become part foreground with the effect on in 3d! So simple.
    Thank you. My curiosity is quashed x
     
  6. pachura

    pachura GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    566
    2
    Dec 9, 2006
    Is it ? Starfox 3DS seems to be using antialiasing in the stereoscopic mode...
     
  7. lostdwarf
    OP

    lostdwarf GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    1,071
    86
    Nov 2, 2008
    ENGLAND
    Is it ? Starfox 3DS seems to be using antialiasing in the stereoscopic mode...
    [/quote]
    It can't, capcom said it turns off once the 3d slider is used. Antialiasing is active at x2 only when in 2D and not active at all in 3D. Hiroshi's reasoning behind this explaines why this is the case aswell as capcoms post.
     
  8. pachura

    pachura GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    566
    2
    Dec 9, 2006
    Capcom was just discussing capabilities of their engine, MT Framework Mobile, not capabilities of the whole handheld.
     
  9. Midna

    Midna Banned

    Banned
    3,336
    839
    Apr 13, 2008
    Albania
    Anti-aliasing when the 3D effect is off? SWEET! That'll look great if I get tired of 3D or wanna let people watch me.
     
  10. BlueStar

    BlueStar GBAtemp Psycho!

    Member
    4,094
    427
    Jan 10, 2006
    UK
    I have to say, the one thing that's really disappointed me in terms of the otherwise excellent previews of 3DS games is the god awful jaggies.
     
  11. pachura

    pachura GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    566
    2
    Dec 9, 2006
    Anyway, it won't be proper 2x2 antialiasing, just 2x1, if they want to blend two images into one. 2 x 400x240 -> 400x240 gives you horizontal antialiasing only.
     
  12. lostdwarf
    OP

    lostdwarf GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    1,071
    86
    Nov 2, 2008
    ENGLAND
    it is not blending 2 images into 1, when in 2d you have 400 lines unused, it turns them off. The only time it is 'blending' 2 images is in 3d mode and their is no antialiasing then. The 3d slider 'blends' 2 images by separating them further apart from each other to create a subtle to extreme 3d illusion across 800 lines. When it is off, only one fully antialiased 2d image 400 lines across is displayed.
    It would be stupid if 2 images running at the same time with the same image using 800 lines. Completely pointless and a waste of energy and processing power.
     
  13. lostdwarf
    OP

    lostdwarf GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    1,071
    86
    Nov 2, 2008
    ENGLAND
    I wouldn't worry, in 2d it will look smooth and crisp but in 3d they turn off the antialiasing but... Your eyes see the jaggy from 2 different perspectives apparently smoothing it all out gorgeously, better than 2D according to gonintendo. Sorry dont have the link.
    Screenshots of ps3 games have jaggies! Blame static images lol
     
  14. TwinRetro

    TwinRetro Don't start nothin', Won't be nothin'

    Global Moderator
    6,181
    4,804
    Aug 29, 2008
    United States
    Las Vegas, NV

    Jaggies are always way worse in screen shots, than actual game play.
     
  15. Midna

    Midna Banned

    Banned
    3,336
    839
    Apr 13, 2008
    Albania
    With 3D smoothing out the jaggies in 3D mode, and anti-aliasing helping out in 2D mode, I'm sure jaggies will not be a problem. And Twinretro's right, jaggies ALWAYS look worse in screenshots.