?
  1. Yes, their bodies, their choices!

    17 vote(s)
    15.9%
  2. No, I am pro-choice [abortion], but for enforced mask-wearing in public.

    69 vote(s)
    64.5%
  3. Yes, let us not be careless about human life!

    13 vote(s)
    12.1%
  4. No, I am pro-life [abortion] but against mandatory mask-wearing in public.

    8 vote(s)
    7.5%
  5. 107 voter(s)
  1. UltraDolphinRevolution

    OP UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    Well, because you are still dodging the question. You absolutely refuse to give an unborn child even the slightest of value.

    Does the self-defence against a not-life-threatening attack by a pregnant woman look the same as against a woman who is not pregnant? Do you have any regard for the child?
     
    Last edited by UltraDolphinRevolution, Aug 10, 2020
  2. SatsuiNoHowdy

    SatsuiNoHowdy Newbie
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    Wearing a mask is important to the safety of all those around you, especially loved ones, and it should be mandatory to not recklessly endanger the lives of others. However, I believe that it's within our best interest as a society to destroy all children, regardless of age, gender, parents, social standing, or whether or not they are sentient/"alive" yet.
     
  3. MikaDubbz

    MikaDubbz GBAtemp Maniac
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    I really haven't dodged any questions, if you don't like my answers, I'm sorry, but they are more than sufficient to the questions you've asked. I give an unborn child's life value, I just don't think it's value is equal to that of a life with a developed brain that has formed thoughts and memories. I've already explained this.

    Why would I fight back against a non-life-threatening attack? That seems incredibly stupid, I'd just peacefully remove myself from that situation.
     
    Last edited by MikaDubbz, Aug 10, 2020
  4. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
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    Okay, I know this is aimed at @The Real Jdbye and @DarknessPlay3r but I want to chime in regardless...

    You (again) assume that the fetus is already a child at any point during the pregnancy. So this also affects the outcome ("is a child a person?" will always result in a "yes" from everyone, whereas "is an unborn fetus a person?" will wield varying results, and even most pro-choice will reply with something akin to "depends on its age")


    On top of that: the "the child is yours (but the vast majority of people view it differently)" is...a weird way of saying. I'm not sure if you've got children, but when they(1) say that children change your life, they aren't kidding. I mean...my girlfriend and me have one of the nicest babies in the world (hardly ever cries, is 100% healthy and smiles at almost everyone), our parents help out a lot, we've got the financial means to support her AND the corona-situation means I get to spend even MORE time with her...but even in that situation there's a lot of things to factor in(2). A child requires A LOT of responsabilities. If you ask me, it just wouldn't be fair to ask this of couples (or even single mothers) who just don't have the capabilities to make the required changes to adjust to catering to a new life for basically the rest of their lives.

    But even so...it simply doesn't hold a candle to the mask-wearing situation. No matter how slim the chance is you're infected yourself, it's not worth spreading that chance to others who might become (very) ill or might even die because of that. Those against it are simply gambling with the health of the people around them. It may be a calculated gamble (I trust that my parents-in-law have practiced safety measures - from masks - since last time I saw them, thus making the risk of infection acceptable), but in public that gamble increases exponentially. Perhaps not to a dangerous degree, but that is only because the vast majority still follows the measures. There's a direct inverse correlation between the amount of people practicing social distancing and mask protections and the amount of covid-cases a country has. It's not fun to hear, but that's what it is.

    ...and I still can't find any connection between those two situations. :unsure:




    (1): family, friends, colleagues...pretty much anyone who has children
    (2): as I'm writing this, I'm playing 8 hours of lullabies because she can't sleep otherwise :P
     
  5. UltraDolphinRevolution

    OP UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    It was a yes/no question and you refused to answer with yes/no (not that you cannot write more after it, of course) thrice or so.
    If they have some value to you, I applaud you. Many feminists and their allies are proud of abortions. The more the better. I also do not value a fetus as much due to the "parasitic" nature of pregnancy. However, I can see why some women might even value the fetus more than their own life (e.g. a late pregnancy, last chance of passing on their genes).
     
  6. MikaDubbz

    MikaDubbz GBAtemp Maniac
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    I explained my stance and explained that if that stance sounds like equality to you, then yes, it's equality. I don't view it as an issue of equality personally, because in a moment where my life is in danger of ending from some assailant, I literally couldn't care less about their gender, race, pregnancy status, etc. etc. All that matters to me at that point is survival. (Hence why you didn't get your simple yes or no, but you did get my stance on the issue all the same.)

    I don't know if I'd consider myself a feminist or ally or not, and frankly i don't care, that is also besides the point. Frankly, if I'm pro or anti-abortion is also besides the point. The only point I've been making is that the two scenarios simply do not equate, so to ask the question of "how can you be in favor of one and not the other," holds no real merit and shouldn't be a question to be genuinely considered.
     
    Last edited by MikaDubbz, Aug 10, 2020
  7. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Most people go through life, following the wonderfull principle of 'follow the leader'. Its more economical. You dont have to waste energy to think on your own, which you could fail at - you know.

    Also this isn't just a thing on the politcal right (people dumb doesnt discriminate.. ;) ), the left suffers from it as well.

    (Be like - we so liberal and pro free expression, if you are 'minority du jour we put on a podest to feel better and for virtue signaling on insta', but the f*ck submit to our politcal correct speech doctrine, and we all have the same opinion regarding the importance of "something something nature/climate" and will bite you, if you dont.)

    If you are looking purely for rationality - wrong planet. ;)


    Another example would be - if a trans person dresses 'sexy' it'll be like 'you go girl, you show em!' if a girl does, its still 'slut - being enslaved by the patriarchy'.
    Joe Rogan came up with this one - I'm just reiterating.. ;)
     
    Last edited by notimp, Aug 10, 2020
  8. The Real Jdbye

    The Real Jdbye Always Remember 30/07/08
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    That's essentially what I was getting at. Even if you have the right to choose whether to do things that may be harmful to yourself or your life situation that does not mean you should have that choice when it comes to harming other people.
     
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  9. omgcat

    omgcat GBAtemp Regular
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    the historical standard is that if a fetus is harmed or killed without the consent of the woman, jail or fines are awarded. hell even the bible states that accidental miscarriage due to beatings or a fight is generally a fine. This follows since the fetus is just an extension of the woman's body. same as if you cut off a toe, finger, or arm/leg.
     
    Last edited by omgcat, Aug 10, 2020
  10. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    But if you are hinting at mask wearing, you have to make that voluntary (but with social pressure), to increase compliance. (Its a 'my body, my rules' thing, if youd force it (in society, in general), people would revolt.

    Apparently you can force it in certain sectors (public transport), or supermarkets, but people then still have some 'freedom to decide' in other aspects of their lives... oh god, I'm arguing for 'why dictatorships work aint I...' ;) ).

    What the US did so horribly wrong (arguably) was to have their political leaders go on television and be like 'and you also could wear masks, I guess' people pick up on those social cues, and that sets group behavior.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Aug 10, 2020
  11. omgcat

    omgcat GBAtemp Regular
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    sadly we also had to be wishy-washy with masks since there was hoarding in the beginning. even now our doctors and nurses don't have enough PPE. if everyone had enough ppe and our stockpile was filled, we would have told everyone to mask the fuck up on day 1.
     
  12. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    I can see that.
     
  13. wiindsurf

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    I was talking about abortion only. But sure, I'd respect her choice on either.
    I actually don't have any opinions about masks nor feel the need to have an opinion. I'm not a subject matter expert nor willing to explore the subject philosophically. I'll wear one if required, if I'm asked or if I fel like it.
    It seems you heard someone say masks save lives, you chose to accept that premise, and now you are drawing parallels with abortion. Good for you.
     
  14. UltraDolphinRevolution

    OP UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    You must be the most liberal person on earth. Wow.
     
  15. wiindsurf

    wiindsurf Member
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    Labels... Can we think outside the box?
    Laws should be about universal consensus, if there is none, there should be no laws. If there is consensus, then a law will naturally emerge.
    Pain and suffering will transcend anyone's particular choice at any moment in life, whether you comprehend that or not.
    And while I do have my personal bias I'm happy not to impose them onto others... or label them.
     
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  16. kaputnik

    kaputnik GBAtemp Regular
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    It's a comparison of apples and oranges. How can you even have a consistent view of two questions with completely different sets of input parameters, unless you boil it down to some grossly oversimplified question about the value of human life or something?

    To reply to the specific question; got no objections to abortion, and wouldn't mind mandatory mask wearing.
     
  17. Youkai

    Youkai Demon
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    Not sure if I get that right but I for one thing everyone should do as they want as long as that doesn't necessarly harm anyone more then "normal" thus said if someone wants to Abort it is their choice, just imagine you got raped and would need to grow the Child of that Rapist and have to life and "love" that child the rest of your life ... I can understand if someone doesn't want that ! and "most" people would probably think long about stuff like this as there is always the chance that you won't be able to get a child anymore if something goes wrong with the abortion.


    About Masks, I think it is utter crap forcing anyone to Wear one ! there are illnesses everywhere and usually when you are ill you should stay home but when I am all healthy I won't let anybody force me to wear such a thing -.-

    All those people that are crying out right now got influenced to much by media ... even with the "high" ammount of deads in the US and Brazil the Worldwide numbers of people that died are still nothing more than a flys fart compared to lots of other things.

    40-50 millions (half of them children) dieing because of starvation ever year but noone cares as its mostly happeneing in those poor countries -.-
    8 Million die because of active or passive smoking every year ....
    (look it up these are official numbers)

    I am actually more scared to be run over by a Car as I had LOTS of close encounters on my daily way to work, even on the bicycle way sometimes Cars get super close to me when they think it is a good idea to use it as a parking space.

    And currently in the Arktis where it should be minus degrees, they hare more then 30°c and everything is burning releasing lots of methane and CO2 as well as potentially frozen Viruses or whatever from ancient times which might be able to kill us all if we won't get killed from the earth warming before anyways.



    So people saying we all need to wear masks and everyone who won't is unsocial are just hypocrits
     
  18. duwen

    duwen Old Man Yoshi
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    Abortion correlated with mask wearing is a dumb comparrison...
    condom wearing correlated with mask wearing would be a better comparrison.

    ...And for clarification, I didn't cast a vote as none of those options allow for nuance and common sense.
     
    Last edited by duwen, Aug 10, 2020
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  19. UltraDolphinRevolution

    OP UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    I didn´t mean liberal in terms of political affiliation. I meant it as the opposite of another extreme: men who do not allow their wives to go out except for grocery shopping.
     
  20. alexander1970

    alexander1970 Hörspiel Fan
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    *looks up for a Second from playing "The Sims" Original Series*

    Is someone still interested today on the "Chernobyl Generation/Childs"....?

    *continues playing "The Sims" and searching for the "Best Covid Holiday Places" Download....*
     
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