?
  1. Yes, their bodies, their choices!

    17 vote(s)
    15.9%
  2. No, I am pro-choice [abortion], but for enforced mask-wearing in public.

    69 vote(s)
    64.5%
  3. Yes, let us not be careless about human life!

    13 vote(s)
    12.1%
  4. No, I am pro-life [abortion] but against mandatory mask-wearing in public.

    8 vote(s)
    7.5%
  5. 107 voter(s)
  1. crimpshrine

    crimpshrine GBAtemp Regular
    Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2014
    Messages:
    299
    Country:
    United States
    Yeah, I totally get what your saying. I am guessing you will hit a nerve in some though. Many get really uncomfortable when their views are questioned. Especially when it revolves around killing something. Name calling is the first sign of that.
     
  2. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    7,599
    Country:
    Belgium
    I miss the option "what the hell does one thing have to do with the other?".

    Okay, I get it : you're "pro-life", and therefore consider any fertilized embryo as valued as any living and breathing human being. Fine. Good for you. You don't have to agree with pro-choice opinions, but at least respect our reasoning, will you?

    I mean... I can start polls ridiculing your position as well ('should pro life people be allowed to swat flies?' 'I saw a pro life eat a salad... Should these innocent crops be murdered for the appetite of a hypocrite?'... And so on), but I know none of these have anything to do with your opinion,and starting trolling threats won't solve anything but will show disrespect for you. So I won't.
    I thank you kindly to at least try to treat me (us) with the same courtesy. :angry:

    Signed,
    Someone you judge hypocrite
     
  3. UltraDolphinRevolution

    OP UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Advanced Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Messages:
    918
    Country:
    China
    Where did I ridicule your position? I don´t even know it yet.

    People who advocate for mask wearing (including me) do it so that human lives may be saved. There are even people who kill their pets in fear of the virus. I do not see the contradiction.

    If you want to force mask wearing for the sake of saving human lives, shouldn´t you at least be neutral on the question of abortion? Unless you do not regard a human fetus as a human life. You can hold this view but it is not scientific. Is it a fish? Is it a bird no? Is it human? Yes. Does it live? Yes. I.e. a human life.

    How is that trolling?
    It would be trolling if I wasn´t interested in your answer or reasons for your views. Or if I held a different view from my stated one.
     
    Last edited by UltraDolphinRevolution, Aug 10, 2020
  4. The Real Jdbye

    The Real Jdbye Always Remember 30/07/08
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    19,768
    Country:
    Norway
    They're not remotely the same thing though. Mask wearing is about protecting other people. Abortion is about protecting yourself.
     
    Sapphire01 likes this.
  5. DarknessPlay3r

    DarknessPlay3r Advanced Member
    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    58
    Country:
    Canada
    Exactly, some one choosing to have an abortion doesn't have any impact on my health/well being. Not wearing a mask in public potentially (and from what we have seen so far and what we currently know) impact myself and others.
     
    Last edited by DarknessPlay3r, Aug 10, 2020
    Sapphire01 likes this.
  6. UltraDolphinRevolution

    OP UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Advanced Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Messages:
    918
    Country:
    China
    Are you a fellow Jew? It is a very traditional way of thinking... that the child is "yours". Not another person. I respect this perspective. In this sense, you are correct.

    However, I would think that the vast majority of people view it differently. I am torn on this issue, to be honest.
     
  7. MikaDubbz

    MikaDubbz GBAtemp Maniac
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,154
    Country:
    United States
    What a dumb question, wearing a mask isn't about you, it's about society, it's all our duty to wear masks to prevent the spread of disease. Having an abortion is an incredibly personal issue that doesn't put the rest of society at risk whether or not you have it performed on yourself; whether it is ethical or not is besides the point.
     
    Sapphire01 likes this.
  8. UltraDolphinRevolution

    OP UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Advanced Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Messages:
    918
    Country:
    China
    DarknessPlay3r made a good point: An abortion from a woman he doesn´t does not affect him. But if she does not wear masks, it might affect him. Correct, however, I think it is a selfish view. It´s not like I support mask-wearing because I am afraid of the virus. I am mostly afraid I might pass it to my parents etc.
    Furthermore, are the 600.000 aborted unborn children (in the US) not part of society? Can I punch a pregnant woman in the stomach because, after all, it is not part of society? I am just harming her a bit.
    Is this unborn child only valuable because she finds it valuable? Like a Nintendo Switch she might also find valuable.
     
    Last edited by UltraDolphinRevolution, Aug 10, 2020
  9. Super.Nova

    Super.Nova GBAtemp Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    382
    Country:
    Saudi Arabia
    It's always a no-no to inflict harm on others, be it in regards to abortion or not wearing a mask.

    In some cases, abortion is life-saving for a mother and is recommended, in some are not.
    If a mother-to-be is not fit to become one, abortion would save a life by not subjecting it to a hard one (unless she has 2 brain cells to rub together and puts them for adoption to a fitcfit couple/individual).

    Not wearing a mask is either inflicting harm onto yourself (if you're not sick) or others (if you're a confirmed case).
    If you think you don't have it, it's still not an excuse as you might have an asymptomatic COVID and still transmit it to others resulting in their demise.

    TL,DR: abortion depends on the case, always wear your mask.
     
  10. MikaDubbz

    MikaDubbz GBAtemp Maniac
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,154
    Country:
    United States
    To your first point, it doesn't matter if you agree with wearing masks or not, it's a simple task that could be saving millions of lives from needlessly getting a life threatening disease. To your other point, it's like I said, whether abortions are ethical or not is beside the issue. If people continue to get abortions, those that are alive and have lived full lives are not at risk of being needlessly killed because of your decision to get that abortion. If you want to make an argument that those fetuses had souls, you're free to make that argument, but for me that is beside the point since they wont feel their death, and they have no sense of their surroundings or life in general, a lost fetus is not the same as a lost life of 30 years of experience, it just isn't, having said that, you can't go about punching women in the stomach: which in that case would be entirely unwanted and unasked for from the mother, that is not the same as an abortion at all, and the fact that you think it is, is incredibly alarming. I will say, that if your real question is if I am in favor of wearing masks and not punching pregnant women in the stomach who didn't ask for it, then I'm 100% in agreement with both of those things.
     
    Last edited by MikaDubbz, Aug 10, 2020
  11. UltraDolphinRevolution

    OP UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Advanced Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Messages:
    918
    Country:
    China
    People keep assuming things about me. I am not religious. Actually, very many Jews aren´t (though tradition is important to many of us). So no, I do not think anything has a soul (in the sense you think; soul is different from a spirit; but anyway I believe in no eternal soul or spirit).

    Let me ask you: Is there a difference (in severity) between punching a pregnant woman (whose unborn child is harmed in the attack) and a non-pregnant woman?

    If a lost life of 30 years of experience is worse than that of a fetus, then the lost life of a small child is also less severe. However, most people would disagree with you. Most people find the younger the life, the more tragic the loss (because presumably, more life-span has been lost; and because of a higher degree of innocence).
     
  12. MikaDubbz

    MikaDubbz GBAtemp Maniac
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,154
    Country:
    United States
    I don't really care if you are religious or not, it's like I've said many times now, the ethics of abortion really are not a part of the equation here. When you look at it as I've laid out now, the two simply are not equal thoughts, that you must agree with A if you do B or vice versa.

    You're getting off track with your questions here. You shouldn't be punching anybody in the stomach if they aren't asking for it. If your real question is if I am in favor of wearing masks and not punching people in the stomach who didn't ask for it, then yes, I'm 100% in agreement with both of those things.

    A lost life of any years holds more value than a lost fetus, it simply does. Once the brain has developed and can form thoughts and memories, then you're talking about 2 very different things.
     
    Last edited by MikaDubbz, Aug 10, 2020
  13. UltraDolphinRevolution

    OP UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Advanced Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Messages:
    918
    Country:
    China
    Ok, but please refrain from assuming I want to make an argument about souls.

    They are not equal. But there is a layer of similarity.

    Are you afraid of answering a hypothetical? I know that you should not punch anyone.
    Let´s say a pregnant woman is attacking you. Would you be just as willing to defend yourself? (Compared to a woman who is not pregnant)
     
  14. MikaDubbz

    MikaDubbz GBAtemp Maniac
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,154
    Country:
    United States
    I was saying that if you want to make that argument, that it's besides the point, I genuinely don't care if you believe they do are not.

    Not enough for me to find logic in thinking that you're a hypocrite if you're in favor of one and not the other.

    If anyone is attacking me, yes I'll defend myself. But even if I punch a pregnant woman and she loses the baby in such a situation, nobody is going to consider that an abortion, so I'm really not sure what kind of knowledge you're trying to glean with this hypothetical.
     
  15. UltraDolphinRevolution

    OP UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Advanced Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Messages:
    918
    Country:
    China
    If want to say that climate change isn´t real, go ahead...
    You see how that sounds? I am telling the audience sth about you that you never claimed. Do not imply I believe in souls when there is no evidence.

    I wouldn´t call them hypocrites. A hypocrite is sb who advocates one thing and does the opposite. If sb believe in "my body my choice" for mask-wearing, but not abortion, I would call this person partially inconsistent. At least until this person tells me why. This was the whole point of the thread. It is not about blaming or trolling. I am genuinely curious.

    That wasn´t my question. Forget about abortions for a second.
    Man punches woman in self-defence.
    Man punches pregnant woman in self-defence.
    Are these two scenarios equal in your view?
     
    Last edited by UltraDolphinRevolution, Aug 10, 2020
  16. MikaDubbz

    MikaDubbz GBAtemp Maniac
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,154
    Country:
    United States
    Alright, I will if I want to, but I don't, so I wont. See how easy that is?

    Wait... you were offended because I was putting out a thought that if you (the royal you, not you specifically) want to say something in this situation about this tangentially related topic, then you (royal you again) are free to, but that is beside the point, so let's stay on task? Sorry that upset you lol, really weird thing to be triggered by, but sorry all the same.

    Well the tone of this thread sure reads like it's preposterous if one is on board with one idea and not the other. So if that was the tone you were going for, I think that's ridiculous.

    Anyone has the right to protect themselves from any assailant regardless of gender or if they are with child. If you wanna call that equal, then sure.
     
  17. SatsuiNoHowdy

    SatsuiNoHowdy Newbie
    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2020
    Messages:
    2
    Country:
    Japan
    Yeetus that fetus.
     
    Sapphire01 likes this.
  18. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    7,599
    Country:
    Belgium
    I'm with pro-choice and mask wearing.

    Again: I see your position. My position is that 'human life' starts at around 3 months after pregnancy. When the foetus is sufficiently more than a sperm cell and an ovary mixing together.

    And yet here I am holding that view regardless (see also just above this part of my reply).

    Okay, perhaps it's not trolling. But the alternative is worse, really. It means you honestly have no idea why your poll question is controversial to begin with. If so, I apologize for that.

    Here's why this poll rubs me the wrong way: your question assumes that your view is correct. And it comes back to that "unless you do not regard a human fetus as a human life", which is generally speaking exactly what pro-choice people believe (before the fetus reaches a certain stage, that is). You assume someone/something is human the moment a sperm cell properly settles in the womb, and phrase your question based on that belief. That's why "Are you consistent with regards to abortion and mask-wearing?" is equally a trap and a question, because none of the options defy your view on fetusses. As such, I can't reply. As I mentioned: the option "they're seperate discussions" is missing.
     
  19. UltraDolphinRevolution

    OP UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Advanced Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Messages:
    918
    Country:
    China
    I wouldn´t hit a woman unless really necessary (e.g. she attacks me with a sharp object). And I would also hesitate more if she was pregnant (esp. not go for the stomach).
    But I suppose you are the champion of equality. That is alarming.
     
  20. MikaDubbz

    MikaDubbz GBAtemp Maniac
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,154
    Country:
    United States
    I wouldn't attack unless necessary either. I assumed by self-defense, you meant that, you know, your life was genuinely in danger. Love the effort you're going through to try and turn this around on me though lol.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted
Loading...

Hide similar threads Similar threads with keywords - consistent, abortion), (COVID19