Affirmative action / Diversity quotas ... hiring & school admissions vs. sports

Dakitten

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How hard is to understand that making anything just because some "special" condition (aside critical health condition of course) are always a bad idea because that idea always implies excluding people that doesn't match that "special" condition.
Um... where to even start with this... Racism existed, and resulted in things like slavery, near complete genocide, and wholesale theft of land and resources. Giving those resources and lives back is now impossible, and the aftermath has significantly impaired the victims (not to mention set a cultural norm that is QUITE pervasive even today), so how would you propose otherwise making up for this discrepancy?
 
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Hanafuda

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I demand to see more diversity in the NBA. FIGHT ME

I want the opposite ... no imposed artificial "diversity" quotas. Just competitiveness, ability and merit gets the pick. Whether it be sports, admissions, jobs, whatever. If that means the NBA is over 80% black (and it is), so be it. If that means medical schools are predominantly asians, with a minority of white, black, aborigine, whatever ... so be it.
 

Dr_Faustus

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Um... where to even start with this... Racism existed, and resulted in things like slavery, near complete genocide, and wholesale theft of land and resources. Giving those resources and lives back is now impossible, and the aftermath has significantly impaired the victims (not to mention set a cultural norm that is QUITE pervasive even today), so how would you propose otherwise making up for this discrepancy?
So if I were to understand your argument, because White people made lives of others difficult lifetimes ago, those who are diverse should get an easy pass into life over others who tried hard to getting into where they are today?

I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but regardless of what happened lifetimes ago, my life nor my family in its current form has no obligation to accept that being the case. The past is in the hands of the past and unless you and your family made your entire fortune and status built upon the lives and corpses of those less fortunate then the argument that we should give more just because of the colour of our skin should have no bearing on any principal. Its if anything just as racist suggesting that all of White people should be obligated to give up something in order to obtain peace and diversity. Its a scenario that has no quarter on either end being good.


You want true equality in the world, you strip away the concept of diversity hires/picks in general. You hire/pick people based on their skill and desires. Not out of obligation to fill a checkbox or a number. When your institution worries more about that over choices of those who want to be there and have put the extended effort of being chosen to be there you already have made a bad call. No one should be looked over nor anyone should be given the easy path based on the colour of their skin or their gender. Its about effort, about skill, about desire and dedication. These should be the only qualifications to get where you want in life, anything else is non essential in life and in the workplace/school/team.
 

Dr_Faustus

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."because White people made lives of others difficult lifetimes ago and the reprecussions are unfortunately ingrained In todays system." there I fix it for you
I mean if you want to go after the system you might as well just recreate society from the ground up at that point because its becomes so foundational to the way people think, feel and act that its on a subconscious routine level. No matter how you look at it, people are designed to exclude and group others. For better or for worse that is just how things are. With that said that does not mean we cannot push that towards a non-bias towards those with again, the specifics being what I mentioned before and not the colour or gender that you are. If people choose bias for colour or gender rather than anything else it does not matter if its for good or bad reason, the reason is still implied exclusivity designed out of racial or gender based rationale which is a very bad thing to still be doing period.

If I want to pick a group of people for a task, a job, a team, or an education. I want to pick those who want to and can prove themselves to be able to take up the challenge. I should only worry about that, Race or Sex should not matter in these choices, what matters is their skill, effort and drive. If that group of people I choose has anyone of any different race or sex I would not care, because again its not about that but about what should matter in them. Its about seeing past differences and about embracing what makes everyone whole in the ideology in why they are there, to achieve the same goals as themselves and as a group.

If that to you sounds somehow wrong, then please enlighten me on the matter.
 
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