A few thoughts on WiiU hacking and discussion

Discussion in 'Wii U - Hacking & Backup Loaders' started by Shadow LAG, May 10, 2013.

  1. Shadow LAG
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    Shadow LAG Member

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    Hello, first I would like to introduce myself. I am Shadow LAG most prominently known in the Xbox 360 modding scene though I have dabbled in many other platforms and games. At first I was debating rather or not to post this in the discussion area or the hacking area but since this pertains more to the hacking portion of the site I believe I made the right decision. I have been following the Wii U modding scene for quite some time since I purchased the Wii U for my girlfriend during its release. I noticed that right away things were picking up and I figured it wouldn't be long before the whole system was cracked wide open but recently following the news it doesn't seem like that will be the case.

    I would like to point out my take on all this as well as maybe rally some thoughts from other members. It seems like unfortunately just like its predecessor the Wii that Nintendo went ahead and prematurely released their new next gen console Wii U before testing the water of what other consoles they will be up against. The Wii U of which has much higher specs than any Nintendo console before it (and currently in some ways better than that current gen consoles on the market) Still has fallen short of the Next Gen hardware. In Nintendo's decision to release innovation over competition it seems many game developers such as EA has turned downed the console due to their lack of interest and now recently the hacking community is following suite. So what happened? Well Nintendo isn't very good at marketing or timing and their target audience aims more towards family and gaming, only problem this time is instead of sticking solely to one target (ie. casual / enthusiast) it has landed itself somewhere in a purgatory of gamers and like it lacks a certain interest of the homebrew scene due to the lack of owners.

    Now many people will jump on the bandwagon and say this is because piracy is less appealing because of drop in game availability and that is also where I think that the misconception comes from that many people whom enjoy homebrew are simply holding out for free games and piracy however personally from observation over a decade most of these conclusions are simply untrue. It's a simple equation really. Platform customers * 1/16 (roughly) = Homebrew Interest. In this case lack of homebrew development. Those who have worked and succeeded in reversing the Wii U have lost interest because they feel that the console itself is lacking homebrew interest when in reality it is that not many people are capable in such small numbers to build a homebrew community without there first being a homebrew scene to build upon. As you can see here this is catch 22. Once a foundation is laid down, then the construction can begin to thrive but with no foundation there is nothing to build upon. Even worse most reverse engineers thrive on doing good work but fear that their efforts will be used for damaging businesses (IE Nintendo / Game developers) by opening the door to ease of piracy.

    People who reverse the consoles do so to allow Indi developers to utilize the hardware for both research and creativity and not to hinder that of licensed developers. Now we must all agree that this is an honorable thought in practice but so is communism. Simply put it just doesn't work and is impossible without some form of abuse. The way Homebrew scenes work is a very simple pattern and it doesn't require a close look at detail to see this pattern across all homebrew scenes I'll give you an example. A reverse engineer will find an exploit in a console, will release the info, the homebrew scene will thrive, and then comes piracy. The reverse engineer feels as if he learned his lesson to not trust the general public with information that will be abused and will not release a follow up the next time a new generation console is to be hacked. Someone else will come along with the same ideals and the cycle repeats unless those individuals come to accept that just like everything good in the world if used improperly could be a bad thing and that should not be a reason to hinder progress. In short not a lot of people can / will settle for that.

    I believe that despite good intentions and holding back from causing another piracy outbreak that there is something to be learned here. We already saw this development in a premature stage when the PS3 shipped with other OS feature. However this was poorly implemented and thus scrapped but this can be considered progress and the reason for that being said is simply this, evolution is on the bases of growing to ones environment. Piracy is not good (no of course it isn't) but if the intention is to build a creative community and piracy is the inevitable negative result than this than results in the gaming industry to adapt to these ideals of the public in a safe maner because that is what they want and that is what makes money. Look at internet piracy of music and movies through the invention of the world wide web. However this breeded a change in creating online retailers such as Netflix, Napster, iTunes and other internet services as a result of adapting and providing other legal alternatives by using the internet to achieve the same result. I do not believe we should stop progress because something bad might come out of something good, that is in reality unavoidable.

    The Xbox scene used to be a bunch of feral hackers and cheaters and pirates amongst homebrew developers but has since evolved and adapted itself by creating checks and balances. Here is an example. Of course disc drive exploit piracy is something that Microsoft is actively battling (Which is now a possibility on the Wii U with recent news) which is separate from the homebrew community entirely. However on the flipside the homebrew community has included in their kernel compilers and build tools that force operating systems or NAND images to block outgoing internet access on an encrypted level that requires almost same skill reverse engineering / development to undo it providing a safer and less almost non existent cheating / abuse community. I believe progress can continue if gone about the proper and right way. I believe just because there is much smaller margin for high intellectuals in the reversing department of the Wii U shouldn't sway the developers of these exploits to lose interest due to the suspected lack of interest in the development of the Wii U scene. I personally believe if progress were to continue and with the right tools and foundations provided people could create amazing pieces of software and build interest as a whole.

    Let us not forget some great accomplishments we would miss out on such as Linux boxes with decent amounts of hardware, or great modifications, or custom content for console exclusives such as super smash brothers for example, and Action Replay type software (example ocarina / gecko) that lead to great discoveries such as beta content discoveries or just fun in general. I also do not believe we should bash these exploit developers in their reluctant behavior either as they still are showing support for the community

    Though I personally see this is a backward and a little over the top expectation given my reasoning above seeing as there are so few exploit developers I also see it as not completely unreasonable and a motivation to plant new seeds for exploit / homebrew developers to grow. In essence the more knowledgeable people in the Wii U scene have not completely given up on the community but would like to see a little self sufficient progress rather than doing all the heavy lifting. The Wii U homebrew scene is not dead, it just needs a little more understand, tolerance, and motivation. If we can achieve those things we may breath life back into the scene as a whole. I look forward to anyone's thought's or comments on this discussion.
     
  2. julialy

    julialy Homebrewer

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    Woah, that's a big wall of text o.o
     
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  3. Ray Lewis

    Ray Lewis Banned

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    Yes, please break up text. If you can code, comprehend what Marcan offered, and/or help port Linux, see Maxternal's thread on 3 cores in this forum. Also, if you have ability, maybe you or friends could follow hole Marcan gave and unlock Wii U mode. There is a chance to start but other than Maternal I find Comex and one other person offering help. Comex is expert, but helps...not guide/direct...when he stops by. Others are working but being quiet...or Wii U homebrew is passed like EA controls HB hacks/dev, lmfao. If you have resources, help Maternal out.
     
  4. Shadow LAG
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    Shadow LAG Member

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    It is an in depth comprehensible thought that needs discussed and addressed rather than pointless pieces of pseudo thoughts like lulz wii hacking scene iz dead hax0rz r assh0l3z. I felt it was time for real assessment of current situations and logical discussions and thoughts on the future of Wii U hacking.

    Now where in the hell did I say EA controls HB hacks / Devs? That is just ignorant. I clearly stated that there is a lack of interest in the Wii U in terms of licensed developers, customers, and exploiters. Also putting a tab every 4 sentences will not change the context of the discussion here that is just nitpicking. I have separated the paragraphs for ease of read if that helps.

    I do have enough knowledge to potentially follow the bread crumb trail but not nearly enough time to dedicate. I started this thread mainly as a discussion food for thought pertaining to the current state of the Wii U homebrew community as a whole as well as addressing some behavior aspects and patterns. To clear up misinformation, finger pointing, and slander and leave room for intelligent discussion and ideas.
     
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  5. Ray Lewis

    Ray Lewis Banned

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    So I guess we agree;-). Marcan gave small part, but those with serious abilities are unwilling to help...or have been working behind the scenes. I've gone over Twitter, wiibrew (forgot to check if wiiubrew has its own forum), emailed Linux guys, followed ps3hacks from wiiuhax, neogaf, went through friends on twitter who mentioned Wii U from f0f, Comex , and Marcan. Tweeted Sven, Marcan himself, Comex ...pm to Comex, emailed Marcan from his website, gone through countless sites....

    I avoid IRC. The spirit is willing but my abilities are weak. Nobody is talking, and admittedly I asked Comex /Marcan questions, not for specific help issues. WiikeyU and likely others are looking at piracy and $. Cannot say I blame them. So, this is where I am. I see Marcan's points and admit he was right. Nobody gives a s*I* about even homebrew on Wii U. Trying to get Linux to run with three cores is not worth it to those who could do it...and people like me don't have those skills.
     
  6. Shadow LAG
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    Shadow LAG Member

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    It all fits into the Wii U's poor release strategy, lack of consoles owners, and lack of exploit documentation. The potential is there but until the communities attitude changes and progress is actually brought into the light a decent piece of hardware with great homebrew potential will be fazed out.
     
  7. Ray Lewis

    Ray Lewis Banned

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    Maxternal's 3 core thread is a start, and Marcan's blog gives details to those who can follow them. Not telling mean anything I don't know, lmfao.