Hardware 3DS CPU

[Juanmatron]

This morning I find info about a CPU.

His name is Marvell 88F6192.

Features

• High-performance single-issue CPU
• 800 Mhz operating speed
• 16KB-Instruction and 16KB-Data 4-way, set-associative L1 cache
• 256KB unified 4-way, set-associative L2 cache
• 16-bit DDR2 memory interface (up to 400 MHz data rate)
• Two Gigabit Ethernet MACs with interface options
• Precise Timing Protocol and Audio Video Bridging
• Single PCI-Express port
• Single USB 2.0 port with integrated PHY
• Two SATA 2.0 ports with integrated PHYs
• Network security engine with various encryption algorithm support
• Audio and MPEG Transport Stream Interface
• Two TDM Channels, SDIO, NAND flash, SPI, TWSI, and Two UART interfaces

This CPU integrates the Marvel Sheeva CPU core which is fully ARMv5tE-compliant with a 256kb L2 Cache. At first I thought it wasn´t interesting., until I find this:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/221467-mar...call-transcript

And in that website, says this:

“Approximately 15% of the sequential increase was due to the initial production revenue from our ARMADA application processors, primarily as a result of a major customer preparing to launch a new gaming platform.”

It could be? I don´t post this in User News because is only an speculation.

 

[popoffka]

Well, can you be more precise about where did you get your information from?
Are the words "preparing to launch a new gaming platform" the only thing that suggests that this CPU can be used in 3DS?

 

[BobTheJoeBob]

Well, can you be more precise about where did you get your information from?
Are the words "preparing to launch a new gaming platform" the only thing that suggests that this CPU can be used in 3DS?

I would assume so. It's quite interesting, we can only speculate though.

 

[mehrab2603]

very interesting.it even says ''MAJOR'' customer

 

[tk_saturn]

His name is Marvell 88F6192.

“Approximately 15% of the sequential increase was due to the initial production revenue from our ARMADA application processors, primarily as a result of a major customer preparing to launch a new gaming platform.”

There's one really big flaw in your post, the Marvell 88F6192 isn't an ARMADA processor. It's a Kirkwood processor designed for use in NAS devices.

If it's a Marvel processor, then it will likely be the ARMADA 310 (88F6283) which is 800Mhz/ 1Ghz. This is similar, except is has an LCD controller built in. I've no idea if that could control 2 LCD screens.

From a quick google the ARM9 processor in the DS is also based on the ARMv5tE instruction set, so presumably Nintendo could get this to run DS/ DSi code.

 

[Midna]

I doubt it. Can this thing give you 1:1 original DS support? Or even any DS support at all? That's a huge clue as to what CPU will be used.

 

[granville]

Unless they can get DS and DSi games to fully run on the CPU, you probably won't be seeing this one. They will likely use either higher clocked ARM7 and ARM9 processors once again. Otherwise, find an ARM processor that can run the old DS/DSi games.

 

[DiscostewSM]

I still wonder if they wouldn't just go the emulator route for DS/DSi games to save up on space and costs (if the hardware can handle the emulation). They built the devices, so they have a knowledge of how they work internally. Plus, if there were any bugs, they could fix via updates to the firmware (you know, at the same time they continue to block out piracy attempts).

 

[tk_saturn]

Unless they can get DS and DSi games to fully run on the CPU, you probably won't be seeing this one. They will likely use either higher clocked ARM7 and ARM9 processors once again. Otherwise, find an ARM processor that can run the old DS/DSi games.

As I said, The Marvel Armada 300 is an Arm9 processor.

DS/ DSi = ARMv5tE (ARM9)

GBA = ARMv4T (ie the ARM7 in the DS)

Marvel Armada 300 = ARMv5tE

 

[Midna]

Woah! That means this isn't just possible, it's actually quite probable. This would rock! And what other new gaming platform could there be? The PSP2 isn't going to be running an ARM9.

 

[granville]

In that case, yeah it's possible. As long as there aren't any issues at all. I guess DS games will just manually downclock smartly to save power since they don't need the extra speed.

Something you still have to factor in though is battery life. I do not know how much power this processor would take, so it's still up in the air. You also have to factor in the fact that the 3DS has its own dedicated GPU- Pica200. That will use even more power. These components may be very efficient, but the combined might of them all may eat away battery life. We KNOW Nintendo is aiming to replicate the DSi's battery life, so they need to use components that can sustain that efficiency.

As for PSP2, do i even have to say it? Not only is there no PSP2 until it's announced, no one has any clue what kind of specs the thing has. Remember the 3DS before the GPU was announced? Everyone thought it might be Tegra or whatever...

 

[Midna]

*Cue this being posted to a major tech site like Engadget*

 

[tk_saturn]

Something you still have to factor in though is battery life.
They are low power 55nm processors.

However, looking through the spec sheets the Marvell PXA168 Application Processor (Armada 100 series) seems a better fit for Nintendo. It has AC '97 audio, camera in, Irda, MicroSD support built in

http://www.marvell.com/products/processors.../pxa_168_pb.pdf

Another important feature of the Armada 100

QUOTEthe ARMADA 100 series supports low-power modes, including a “zeropower
mode” where the processor state is retained in DDR memory while the SoC power is completely shut off

 

[Midna]

Ah, you're right. The comment about the new gaming platform concerned the company's revenue, not a single chip.

 

[Juanmatron]

Everyone.

In the end, the CPU will not be the 88F6192 as the thread already says, because this is a Marvell SoC for NAS, so that would share with 3DS is the main CPU, it´s a PXA320 by Marvell (design corresponds to the old Intel Xscale) and contrary to what I said in the thread, is no based on ARM11 architecture, is based on ARM9.

The reason why Nintendo has chosen a CPU ARM9 and no a ARM11 or Cortex-A8 has to do with the fact that the overall architecture of the console, despite changes as a more powerful GPU, more memory and a new memory controller, it still retains many of the hardware elements of the DSi, which were designed to complement an ARM9, the change of architecture would be an additional cost to Nintendo.

 

[DiscostewSM]

Unfortunately Juanmatron, they can't keep doing this with each new generation, and have to break it at some point.

The GBA had an ARM7
The DS had an ARM9 + an improved ARM7, but an ARM7 nonetheless because of GBA compatibility
The DSi removed GBA compatibility, but such hardware like the ARM7 still exists because it's still being used. ARM9 is improved.
The 3DS, in order to keep backwards-compatibility at a hardware level, would have to continuing having an ARM9 and ARM7. Whether they are purely for DS compatibility is unknown to us, but if they aren't, then expect them to be in the next generation after the 3DS because of backwards-compatibility.

This is why I want to think that they'd go the emulator route, so that they can start fresh without having to retain prior version hardware (even if it were improved like with the GBA->DS jump), or reserve space for them in an already compact casing (they couldn't add a 2nd slidepad because of that). As just an example, the PS3 originally could play PS2 discs, and that was through emulation as well. Sure, the PS3 hardware could handle it, but since we're still guessing what the 3DS contains, I don't think it's a farfetched idea.

 

[trumpet-205]

One thing I want to add. PS3 originally has PS2 Emtion chip on it. Meaning it is 100% backward compatible. It is only when Sony decided to cut down the cost that they remove the chip. Now is like 90% compatible via software emulation.

Emulation will not achieve 100% compatibility. Even the famous VisualBoyAdvance which convert ARM7 to x86 has 98% compatibility.

 

[Midna]

Everyone.

In the end, the CPU will not be the 88F6192 as the thread already says, because this is a Marvell SoC for NAS, so that would share with 3DS is the main CPU, it´s a PXA320 by Marvell (design corresponds to the old Intel Xscale) and contrary to what I said in the thread, is no based on ARM11 architecture, is based on ARM9.

The reason why Nintendo has chosen a CPU ARM9 and no a ARM11 or Cortex-A8 has to do with the fact that the overall architecture of the console, despite changes as a more powerful GPU, more memory and a new memory controller, it still retains many of the hardware elements of the DSi, which were designed to complement an ARM9, the change of architecture would be an additional cost to Nintendo.

Actually the article said a major customer was using a Marvell Aplication Processor for a new gaming console. That includes a whole bunch of chips. There's no evidence that it's that particular one.

 

[DiscostewSM]

One thing I want to add. PS3 originally has PS2 Emtion chip on it. Meaning it is 100% backward compatible. It is only when Sony decided to cut down the cost that they remove the chip. Now is like 90% compatible via software emulation.

Emulation will not achieve 100% compatibility. Even the famous VisualBoyAdvance which convert ARM7 to x86 has 98% compatibility.

The PS2 EmotionEngine chip was a pretty beefy chip, in that it could handle stuff that even an optimized CPU would have trouble with. But we're talking about regular CPUs here. My point was that if it became possible, even with a 90% rate as you said, to emulate something of that nature, then how could emulating the GBA and DS ARM processors be any harder?

As for VisualBoyAdvance, for it to have a 98% compatibility rate, and not be developed by the company who has all the technical information about it, is still pretty amazing.

 

[tk_saturn]

it´s a PXA320 by Marvell (design corresponds to the old Intel Xscale)

You state that as a fact, I hope you have a source for that.

I still believe there's a fair chance you are wrong because a) it's not an Armada processor and b) it's a 90nm processor, c) it's a processor from 2006.

The Armada 100 series for example is 55nm.