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Leaders blame Russia-Europe pipeline leaks on sabotage (Nord Stream)
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You say we don't know who did it, but then err on the side of the US being the culprit. I say we don't know who did it, but err on the side of a Putin false flag attack being the culprit. If I have a double-standard, you have the exact same type of double-standard.
Not really, as those hardened against Russian propaganda remain hardened against it, and those susceptible to it still remain susceptible to it. Desperate times call for desperate measures, however, and there has been a coordinated online disinformation campaign from Russian troll farms ongoing since the moment the pipeline failed/was sabotaged. The Kremlin is the boy who cried wolf, and if they're telling us one thing, it's the opposite that's usually true.
It's not "pro-Russia" to support a mass murdering dictator who is forcing a draft on his own people to continue an unnecessary and morally reprehensible conflict. The positions you hold are very much to the detriment of the common man in Russia. Without Putin there would be no invasion, no sanctions, no draft, and no motivation for anyone to target Russia's pipelines.
Last edited by Xzi,
No I don´t. I already explained it by comparing it to Navalny.
And I´m not even saying it was the US.
You immediately accused Putin in the Navalny case. Yet, there is no video of Putin and other high-ranking officials announcing to "end him". Or foreign diplomats thanking Putin for poisoning Navalny.
Thinking of the Russian government in the Navalny case is similar to thinking of the US administration in this case.
I don´t have a double standard, sorry. I simply exposed yours.
Thank you for admitting it. Then what is your next argument? Or do you accuse Putin without arguments because he also ruined your coffee today?
You seem to not know my position. Without NATO membership (or EU membership which indirectly includes NATO membership, see association agreement about a common security apparatus), there would be no war.
The position you hold is to the detriment of all Ukrainians. Their civilians (and also drafted soldiers) die, while Russia "only" loses men.
After the war is over, both countries will have fewer soldiers and a shattered economy. But only Ukraine will have devasted cities and a loss of territory.
Was it worth it? They will have gained nothing. US soldiers would still not be accepted in Kiev, unless you want WW3. The US knows this.
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Bull fucking shit. You were already arguing on behalf of Putin long before the pipeline incident, and you've done nothing but imply the US was responsible throughout the whole thread.
The hell are you smoking, dude? Russian prison on its own is a death sentence if you don't get out quickly, and Putin put Navalny there on bogus charges.
That Putin was desperate enough to believe such a false flag operation would win him some more allies, or at least keep some of his current ones from abandoning him. Miscalculations would be far from unprecedented for him.
Which is a facade that not even Putin himself has bothered to maintain over these last few months. You're literally providing additional propaganda for him unprompted.
Is defending their own homeland against the invasion of a tyrant "worth it?" Is this a serious question? The Russian invasion loses more ground by the day, and eventually it will be forced out. Putin's bargain bin military has been exposed for all the world to mock, and unless they voluntarily withdraw, the Russian economy will never be the same again.
Actually it is for some people, and now they will be cold and poorer due to the high gas prices that the USA are now trying to sell Europe (when your own prices are the highest they have ever been), but you seem to think it's justifiable for some country to destory another countries infrastructure, so you can step in and profit from it. This is pretty much global terrorism in many people's eye's.
USA is a bully, it always has been and when it's not picking on some country it's selling some other country weapons that will use them on others. The thing is, that the USA has invaded a few countries, but then gets pissed when another country does it - double standards and hypocrisy spring to mind.
What we don't see from the USA is them getting all uppety when two African countries are invading each other, or when China is enslaving vast amounts of people etc. USA is not the world peace force and it shouldn't be getting involved in starting WW3, which is where we are all going to end up soon if USA doesn't stop poking its nose into other countries politics.
If you knew anything about history, you would know that during the Regan era the Berlin wall came down and that spelled the end of the Soviet Union. They (Soviets) at the time were told that NATO would not encroach on it's borders, but what we have seen is NATO expanding each decade to the point that they now are on Russia's border, and Russia has said enough is enough, they have been warning against this for many years. You also know the sum of zero about Ukraine, it's history or it's politics or politicians, culture or people and probably couldn't even point to it on a map 6 months ago, yet you feel you can spout off your opinions about it to others, and then start citing some shady western propoganda about things you know nothing about.....go figure that out!
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Almost like capitalism is shit, and double shit for anyone born poor into such a system. Again though, I have confidence that most European nations will provide assistance for those struggling to pay for heating throughout the winter. The US will have a lot more homeless freeze to death during the same period, and you won't care enough to mention it even in passing.
Is it really a double standard when the same morally reprehensible group of Americans which supported the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq are now also supporting the invasion of Ukraine? Y'all love your strongmen, no matter their nation, and if not for the 2008 economic collapse, conservatives would still be worshiping GWB to this day.
If some country had willfully blown up your energy infrastructure and people were freezing to death (you have no idea how cold it gets in many parts of Europe), I would be complaining about it, so don't try and tar me with the same mould that you come from.
You are an idiot and you can't see your own hypocrisy or double standards. You really do need to have a long period of silence and self reflection and think about how others see you, it's not in a good light but you are too blinded by your own self importance to see this. You have mental issues, maybe you've not been diagnosed by a doctor yet, but trust me when I say to you that you need to seek out help.
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Firstly, I live in Colorado where it gets down to at least -30 F at points during the winter. Secondly, continuing to assume you know the identity of the perpetrator for certain, and further that you know for certain it was any nation's government, makes you look like a total moron.
When I was younger my views trended more liberal, now that I'm older they trend more leftist. Across that entire span of time I've been anti-imperialism, and been a part of multiple anti-imperialism protests. Neither of us is hypocritical, I simply stand in diametric opposition to your abhorrent beliefs and lack of morals/ethics. If you love the way Putin lords over Russia so much, feel free to move there, because as long as true American values hold firm, this nation will never accept an authoritarian dictator as legitimate.
Who are you talking to? I don´t support the invasion into Ukraine. But I blame the West as well. It provoked this reaction in my view (and millions if not billions around the world).
I don´t support the invasion of Afghanistan or Iraq. You might be thinking of boomer "America f*ck yeah" kind of guys. I doubt you will find many online.
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Obviously I was talking to the person I was replying to, an American conservative. Attempting to justify the invasion, however, is hardly any better than voicing full-throated support for it. It was entirely unprovoked and unnecessary, and since it began Putin's forces have barely even engaged with the Ukrainian military but instead targeted civilians.
Every Trump supporter who was old enough to understand politics when 9/11 happened supported our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Only in retrospect did they disavow GWB, and that was more for the optics than anything else. Trump still represents the worst instincts and pro-imperialist rhetoric of the old GOP.
This bit made me laugh, haha, and you have that corrupt retard Biden as a president, and that mongeloid Harris as your VP who only last week was in South Korea, and then claimed that the PRK were your allies......
From an outsiders perspective:
Your country has been overthrown by globalists and your government officials are nothing but puppets that are being told what laws to make and pass to protect the rich people that are really running the show and you are too blind to see this. A vast amount of people in USA have lost their way, they think men can get pregnant and you can change your biology, they believe in nothing. You have criminals walking the steets killing and stealing at will and the police are being defunded and demoralised and the criminals not being prosecuted. Your FBI has been turned into the Biden Admins own SS brigade. Law is onesided now and protects the rich. Even your voter system is corrupted and you look like a bananna republic now to many outsideof the USA. You have black people being openly racist against white people and this is being tolerated and pushed by your MSM and politicians, your school system pushes critical race theory.
If you think you're living in a country with American values - well I don't think much about your values.
If you think you don't live in a dictatorship - you are mistaken.
If you think the people of the world are looking on at the USA as some sort of thing to aspire to be like, you are sadly vey much mistaken. The world is laughing at you and how you have become a victim of your own success. You had the chance to make the world a better place but squandered it for greed and power. You bully the rest of the world with Sanctions or Invasions or strike them with missliles when they don't do what you want and you wonder why some call you the "Great Satan". You even shit on your own Allies, you didn't even tell them you were abandoning Afghanistan and then your president is poking his nose into the UK and Brexit matters and trying to blackmail them....with friends like these, do we need them????
Since Biden took office, everyone is poorer, the world is on the brink of WW3, your country has turned into a joke, and you think the dems are doing a good job? Stroll on november when the voting public will get a chance to display their disatisfaction with the Biden admin and the commie policies they have implemented. Maybe the people can save America before it's too late.
Last edited by mrdude,
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All that shows, is that Putin is in the stronger position because he is aware of how things occurred and all the things that are going to occur. Not because he is morally superior.
I don't think Putin blew up the pipeline, he was too busy congratulating himself for killing so many ukrainians, stealing all that land with all the resources in the ground, the sham referendum & ordering blowing up the pipeline.
This bit made me laugh too, but I'm sure for a different reason. The irony of you calling Biden retarded.
That never happened and NATO expansion is only driven by Putin's actions, because countries get scared and want to join NATO. What should we do, let Putin destroy them?
That is like beating someone up for going to the Police, after you stole from them.... Well you were forced to beat them up, right? They went to the Police!
Last edited by smf,
So then e.g. Cuba or Panama should receive Russian rockets to defend against the US, right? Would make the world so mucher safer... right?
Funny how you see NATO as the police.
Syria is still being occupied by thieving US forces. Assad should get some long-range weapons from Russia to chase them out.
It is much better. I do not support the killing of Charlie Hebdo, but I can explain to anyone why this "unprovoked" attack happened.
Not every Trump supporter. But probably a lot of them. If they change their views when growing up, it is a sign of maturity. Something we can only hope for regarding you. Many Neocons and the establishment Democrats still view the Iraq war as justified.
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No, you can only make excuses for why you believe it's okay that it happened. Which does nothing but call your own morals and ethics into question.
A significant portion of them are full-grown adults already, and set in their ways. The Southern Strategy is not very appealing to the younger generations.
Moral Nr. 1 is existence. The Ukraine war was preventable and is going to cost millions of additional starvation deaths, e.g. because the EU still does not allow Russian fertilizer exports to the 3rd world. Though the EU recently lifted the ban for itself. Same with grain exports which ended up in Europe for the most part.
About Charlie Hebdo: You can either accept that Muslims hold their prophet more dear than their own parents or you can fight them till eternity. Most people understand this, which is why you, Xzi, do not dare publish a picture of him.
There, I just explained it without justifying it.
USA should be sent out from EUROPE and nothing else. Everywhere where USA comes there is a war.
Nobody else was near the damaged Pipeline except USS Kearsarge. USA is sabotaging EUROPE only because the GAS and power.
Nobody else was near the damaged Pipeline except USS Kearsarge. USA is sabotaging EUROPE only because the GAS and power.
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